Monday, March 7, 2011

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: What would YOU do in his Shoes?

I want to propose a scenario (NOT FACTS) just to show how difficult some situations can be and how things are not always black and white.

Suppose, just SUPPOSE, that Junior Lee Beebe, Jr picked up Amy Henslee and they went back to hang in his trailer, for whatever reasons. Suppose they are sitting there watching a video and in comes Tonya Howarth (NOT A FACT) and, for whatever reasons - jealousy, mental disorder, paranoia, etc) she freaks out and thinks something is going on and grabs the shotgun and shoots Amy. Beebe, horrified, jumps up and wrenches the shotgun from her grasp. Tonya tells him she is going to call the police and tell them Beebe shot Amy. Enraged over the killing of Amy and scared the police will believe Tonya, he pulls the trigger and kills Tonya. Or, suppose that in seeing Amy lying there dead, he just sees red and pulls the trigger and kills Tonya.

Now, he has two dead women in his trailer. He killed one of them and not in self-defense, but in rage or fear. He buries the women and he can escape from the whole situation. Perhaps, his mind is clouded by drugs or terror at the time and he isn't making the smartest or most honorable decision.

Once the police arrest him, he tells the story fairly accurately (NOT A FACT) but claims self-defense instead of just saying he shot Tonya because he was furious or scared. He lies but he lies because he is trying to save himself from a life in prison, not because he murdered Amy.

IF this scenario were true (and I am not saying it is in any way), Junior Lee Beebe Jr would not come off as such an evil guy. A jury, if they believed he shot Tonya because Tonya shot Amy (for whatever reasons), might understand why someone would do this in the heat of the moment and see it as a crime of passion or temporary insanity.

What sentence would you give him IF this were true and what would YOU do if you found yourself in such a situation with two dead women in your trailer? I know some of you would say, even if you shot Tonya in a haze of anger or fear, that you would have called the police and hoped they would believe you. What if you thought they wouldn't? What if you had a bit of a not-so-perfect past and thought no one would believe you?

I am not justifying the killing of anyone. I am just trying to point out how things may not be quite as they seem and, if there are mitigating circumstances, Beebe may be wrong but not as nasty a creature as some think. If it turns out that he shot both women in cold blood, then he deserves the full penalty of the law, but, if he didn't, he deserves a sentence that matches the actual acts of wrongdoing.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

What would the motive be for Beebe to kill both women? I was thinking on the line that someone called Tonya to check on Beebe because they could not get a hold of Amy..

Did that person have some control//jealousy /suspicions of Amy whereabouts daily...

Did Tonya through conversation
think something was going on..

Just a thought...

Anonymous said...

I was thinking that maybe that Beebe could have been paranoid enough to think that Tonya was going to get rid of him for good, and he thought that Amy was behind it. So he shoots Amy and then Tonya shows up. Tonya tries to get away and he shoots her too. However I do wonder if Beebe had made any threats prior to this, cause of James' statement that he wanted Amy home where she would be safe?

Pat Brown said...

There is little likelihood that this was a premeditated homicide because of the location and timing. Also, from what I have heard, Tonya wasn't running off anywhere. It IS interesting that James commented that Beebe didn't expect anyone to see him come to the house which makes it sound like James believes it was premeditated, especially when one adds on his comment that Beebe had a sick obsession with Amy. Also odd is the comment, as Anonymous says above, is that he wanted Amy home where she would be safe. Why would a man think that his wife should be tucked up in the home so as not to get killed? Most people don't think going to the store, friend's houses, etc., is unsafe. There is something we have not learned of that must be behind these comments.

bkjarrell said...

One young lady was waiting on her husband and x girlfriend,, her mom droped her off... she was hurt, she shot the other young lady, that was cheating with her husband.
The husband shot his wife...

Anonymous said...

Tonya was shot in the back of the head..ya sounds like self defence Bat!

jamie said...

and another thing brainiac they were both shot out side so that messes up your dumb theory

Anonymous said...

Why post or discuss Hypothetical situations about an ongoing case where the Hypothetical situation doesn't come close to a) the facts of the case or b) aid in profiling? The whole situation sounds more like a "witch" hunt than a true discussion of substantive facts and situations important to the case. Are you purposefully at this point trying to upset the Community affected by this tragedy? What is your true motive, Pat? Have you spoken with law enforcement regarding this case?

Anonymous said...

How does someone accidentally shoot someone in the BACK of the head with a long gun (shotgun) and be able to shoot them twice when supposedly they are squared off face to face grappling for the weapon? Its hogwash.

From what the DA said in the probable cause hearing they both were shot in the tiny trailer and then taken out the next day and buried. The DA came in and taped off a diagram of the exact dimensions of the trailer showing that it couldnt have happened like Beebe said in such a small confined space and the place was probably littered with junk inside too.

Now if he had used a handgun his story might be more believable, but with a long gun there has to be distance in between the suspect and the victim for the barrel to be directed at the head or any other body area.

Oh and James Henslee NEVER said that Beebe DID have an obession with Amy. After his wife was cruelly murdered and one of his friends told him that Amy was fearful of Beebe, he said "I THINK" Beebe may have had an obsession with Amy. If you are going to put out information then at least make it accurate and not out of context.

Anonymous said...

Why don't u get a fuckin life and leave this family alone!

Tana said...

Based on Pat's hypothetical,(remember, this is only hypothetical) one can understand how he would panic. None of us know how we would react in such a situation, especially if we have a criminal past, as he does. He could have possibly been using a controlled substance which would alter his reasoning, & therefore reacted before thinking..I know we all want to trust the justice system, but let's face it, it's not always fair...remember the two women who got life sentences for stealing $11 worth of goods? Scary!!

Jamie said...

Like i have stated many times before,I was on the scene and Bats what ifs make no scence what so ever so this is all just hog wash..She is obsessed with hurting James.

Anonymous said...

Pat, I would consider your opinions about the case as a professional if, in fact, you behaved as one. To post hypothetical scenerios based on nothing more than insinuation is not a way a professional behaves. When you get the facts from the DA, law enforcement, or other credible sources, then you are acting as more of a professional. And, even though you delete posts challenging your professionalism, I can state with a FACT that others are noticing how unprofessional you or have become as a result of your recent posts. While what you are doing may make for "fun" discussion on a 24-hr news channel, in real life you are held to a higher standard.

Anonymous said...

I think Pat is a professional and not a Bat as she is being called. Anytime a murder is committed people propose theorys, even law enforcement. Theorys are suppositions. Even the attackers of Pat Browns's posting here on this case use them.

For God's sake show some respect for others and stop attacking the blogger because your theory doesn't fit with this theory. You have a right to your opinions but do not forget, so does Ms Brown.

Anonymous said...

Propose theories, yes, based on the facts at hand. That's different than making up scenarios based on "woulda, shoulda, coulda" feelings. If Pat Brown wasn't a professional profiler, then the opinions would be just that - opinions. But she is claiming to be using her professional status to base her opinions as more than just a person who is showing concern. It is that supposition for the substance of questioning her approach and how she is making claims regarding her opinion. In addition, Ms. Brown is making such claims and opinions in Public, which takes the level of scrutiny to a higher level of accountability. While it is true we are all allowed and afforded our opinion, we are also held accountable to those opinions.

Anonymous said...

So because she is professional she isn't to propose theorys? That is ridiculous! I think if you read other postings she has made on this case giving Facts and alleged facts you will find her theorys are just as professional as the actual Facts of this case.

I think perhaps your facts are based on your own belief of someone involved in the case being innocent of causing the deaths and not just legal Facts.

Anonymous said...

Wow, it looks like Pat Brown is starting a new Cult....how many of her bloggers will we read about at the end of this year that tried to catch a comet to Profile off in distant galaxies???? Just my opinion based on a theory I have and want to share.

A-None-E-Mouse said...

I just cringe when I hear persons from that area using the F word as if the more they use it the more people will stop talking about this crime. It is not a sign of intelligence to use cuss words to get your meaning across. You all really know how to make yourselves look like idiots. I am embarrassed for you. When crimes happen people do theorize and talk about "what if" and the "why" of it. They just do. Pat is NOT stalking James There is nothing she is doing that is illegal, libelous, slanderous or character defaming. You all better look up the definitions of the above words.
She is not obsessed with hurting James. Good grief! Don't tell me you didn't theorize, talk and wonder about "who did it" in the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Because I know you did, because I lived there.
Jamie since you are so vocal on this blog. You are supposed to be a professional person who goes to crime scenes? LOL!!! Your attitude and language is anything but professional.
She isn't the only person wondering why James hasn't taken a poly. "Oh yes I will take a lie detector test." Then how convenient for LE to not insist upon one just because Beebe got arrested. There is definitley more to this crime than what meets the eye. Not saying it is James either, maybe it is a different person of the Hartford Horde, that wants attention taken away from this case for a different reason. Yes, I can't wait for this trial. MUCH more will come out in the trial. Beebe will start singing soon.
Don't think that because a person is not a suspect now, LE won't make them a suspect in the future. Hartford,(druggies and other lowlifes) the eyes of the nation are on you! LOL!!

jamie said...

f u

A-Non-E-Mouse said...

Exactly Jamie! That is what I mean, such culture and finesse! LOL!

Anonymous said...

A-None-E-Mouse, I agree with you. To jump to the conclusion that because someone shares a theory they aren't being professional is silly. I am of the opinion that name calling is downright ludicrous and unprofessional. And use of vulgarity only shows lack of integrity to me.

I think Pat Brown is very professional. When she has only what she has heard or read or been told then all she can do is give an opinion based on that. And that is what she does on Nancy Grace and all the other shows she is asked to be a guest on. What she does and says on her blog is strickly for her to decide. If people disagree, fine, but don't attack because something she says or writes doesn't fit what they believe or know. It's all alleged until the trial(s), or unless admitted and/or written or videos are there to show proof.

I deal with theories, aka: suppostions, assumptions, speculations in what I write often. It's all just tentative and not final.

TigressPen

Anonymous said...

It's not that what she says doesn't fit into one's belief, it's more along the lines of pointing out incorrect assumptions or opinions based on known facts. To jump to a stated opinion based on a few media sources is in no way representative of the entire situation. In today's day and age of 24/7 media coverage, panel discussions, and the internet, we are too drawn to quickly point the finger at one person simply based on what someone says on their favorite channel or blog site. So, it's not surprising that our human behavior in difficult situations adjust to try and thwart any suspicion. And lawyers also are realizing how many "experts" are invited to news programs as panel participants and will advise clients to behave in certain ways. We can all speculate that so and so MUST be hiding something as though we are talking like it's a fact, however, no one has taken the time or effort to contact the District Attorney's office, Law Enforcement, or reporters following the case to get an inside look into what is going on. It's easy to be an "Lazy Boy Quarterback" in the comfort of our own home - the real story, however, takes a bit of effort which very few on this blog actually take.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Cohle, the forensic pathologist, testified that, because of his analysis of the shotgun wounds, he didn't think there had been a struggle for the gun between Beebe and Howarth. Both wounds were to the back of her head.

"Typically, if people are fighting for a gun, it would be face to face," he explained.

Pat Brown said...

For those who are claiming that what the experts said in the recent hearing is evidence of what occurred, you are incorrect. This is a preliminary (probable cause) hearing and not a trial. In such a hearing, the prosecution presents their case and the defense usually does not. The defense will wait until trial to bring on their experts and present their evidence or their take on the evidence.

Just because one expert has an opinion that something happened doesn't make it so (this is why experts will present opposing views at trial). Saying that the experts' opinions that were presented at the probable cause hearing are proof of what actually occurred means you are convicting the defendant before he has been tried in court, something far worse than my opining about various possibilities in this case. I think Joran van der Sloot is not telling the truth about the murder of Stephany Flores and I will state that opinion, but I do not become enraged if someone thinks he might be telling the truth or feels the evidence thus far known points to his innocence. Apparently some here feel that it is okay for them to jump the gun on Beebe and pronounce him guilty of double homicide but it is not okay for someone to discuss the possibility that he might not guilty of double homicide. Those who accuse me of opining without having all the evidence are doing the same exact thing themselves.

BTW, the person or persons who accused me of fabricating criminal record charges for James Henslee, my information came straight from the Michigan Criminal History Records. The felony arson arrest came on 09/02/1992 (MI8005100).

Anonymous said...

U ppl make me fuckin sick don't u have anything better to do than spread lies u ass holes weren't there so u don't know shit and as far as jamie jamie u are the best and all u fake ass ppl on here need to back off thanks morgana town!

Anonymous said...

And bat u know what they say ppl who assume are the first three letters and that's what you are

A-Non-E-Mouse said...

Amen Tigress Pen! Thank you!!!

To anonymous: "however, no one has taken the time or effort to contact the District Attorney's office, Law Enforcement, or reporters following the case to get an inside look into what is going on"
And you know this how???? (Forget info from the reporters by the way, they are part of the media, that likes to sensationalize.)

To Morgana: You also just proved my point, you really are embarrassing yourselves. The "F" word really is your favorite word, do you even know how to carry on an intelligent discussion? LOL!!

Anonymous said...

Reporters are useful in other ways, especially local reporters. Stay away from the reporters that work in the large networks, i.e. FoxNews, CNN, etc.

And I know this because I've asked, A-Non-E Mouse. Have you?

A-Non-E-Mouse said...

"no one has taken the time or effort to contact the District Attorney's office, Law Enforcement." I repeat... and you know Pat has not taken the time to do this, how do you know that?? There is no way you can know what she does and does not do and who she talks to.

To whoever you think you may be: Yes I have, AND
I know you have not.:-)

Local reporters are involved in creating a career to get them out of little dead end towns, so they can get hired from the big networks.

Anonymous said...

And you think you know this how?

LP said...

"no one has taken the time or effort to contact the District Attorney's office, Law Enforcement." I repeat..
and how do you know this? How do you know for a fact, that no one(specifically Pat Brown) has contacted anyone you mentioned above??
You have never answered my question, all you do is answer a question with a question. Not playing your silly game.

Anonymous said...

I find it highly hypocritical that those that do not agree with Pat's OPINION on the case are telling her that she is wrong, telling her to 'shut the F up' telling her to quit messing with the family, yada yada yada, yet each and every one of you that have commented on these blogs are NOT following your own advice. How can you tell someone they are wrong (simply because they do not agree with you OPINION) and tell them to shut up, yet continually show up to spew your own hate and filth? The same things you are accusing Pat of doing. WOW!!!

Anonymous said...

So now you are saying that the forensic pathologist has to be wrong so Beebe can be right?

Hmmm ok.....then perhaps you can tell me how a teeny tiny little woman gets shot TWICE in the back of the head when she is facing the big heavyset slob that is facing her trying to get the weapon away from him? I think I will rely on commonsense and logic.

I trust what he says a hellavu lot more than anyone who hasn"t even seen the evidence, the 7 x 11 ft. scene or photos.

Man, when did you change and become an advocate for murder defendants?

Pat Brown said...

Apparently, Anonymous, you cannot read the text in my comment. I did not say that the prosecution expert was wrong; I said we do not have the defense expert testifying as of yet and we are not in a courtroom where the experts can be cross-examined. It appears you would like to bypass the justice system and hang Beebe immediately. I want to hear both experts and analyze all the evidence before I decide whether a person is absolutely guilty of a crime.

I am not an advocate for murder defendants; I am a advocate for the truth. To date, in fifteen years, I have worked for only three defense attorneys analyzing their cases for appeal. In all three I told the lawyers their clients were guilty as hell and should get Murder One. Because I call it like I see it, I am not the profiler that defense attorneys want to call in very often.

There reason I do not yet have the opinion that Beebe murdered the two women in cold blood; Amy was not seen being abducted kicking and screaming by Beebe into his truck. If that were true, I would say this was a premeditated crime by a psychopath. I would say the evidence points to Beebe being guilty. But, even here, he could be an accessory to murder but not the murderer himself. Someone else could have met them and killed Amy.

In a court of law, the purpose of seeing ALL the evidence before one makes a final call on guilt is to make sure that ALL the evidence in totality proves one scenario beyond a reasonable doubt. If the jury finds that the prosecution proves their case beyond that reasonable doubt, then Beebe will be convicted. If he is convicted on solid evidence and the jury does a good job, I will have no problem with the outcome.

Anonymous said...

When did that change? You have never wanted to wait before? You either deemed them guilty psychopaths or not and moved on. I have seen you size someone up in 10 minutes on HLN and have never even met the person before nor did you have any of the evidence LE had.

So what makes this case different than others?

Thank you, but I dont need your help understanding the law and the judicial system. Through my career I am quite familiar with the way it works.

But I also know I am not in a court of law either... just like James Henslee isn't...yet he is discussed ad nauseaum. My understanding is this is just a blog. You can voice your opinions/theories about Henslee but we are not allowed to post opnions about Beebe's guilt? Do we have to wait for Henslee to go to trial to comment on him? What is the difference? After all he isnt even in the court system nor a suspect.

But you are avoiding my very simple commonsense and logical question. How can one little woman be shot in the BACK of her head TWICE(two trigger pulls) when the suspect says he was grappling with her trying to take the weapon from her? You dont think firing TWO shots shows premediation to murder? Thud.

You know very well the forensic pathologist is going to testify to the same thing he testified to in the PH and so will the ME. They are also going to have the diagram on the floor again and all one has to do is look what a small space it is to know it just didnt happen the way Beebe said. The DA knows where both of them were when shot. Shotgun blasts leaves plenty of forensic evidence behind.

How do you explain it supposedly happening in a tiny 7 x 11 ft. area? Did you see the detective and the DA was almost having to step on the line to even hold the weapon between them?

Beebe is a big old heavyset overweight dude with a big belly and the shotgun is long. It makes absolutely no sense the story Beebe is trying to sell.

And you are wrong when you say it hasnt been proved he is a liar. Yes, they have proved his IS a liar, and of course if he lies about one thing or two.. he will certainly lie about other things.

He wants people to believe that he had two women on a string (gag) and one killed because she couldnt stand the thought he had someone else, and of course he just accidently shot her......twice, right square in the head.(How convenient) So he is trying to weasel out of any wrongdoing at all. Just the poor whittle victim caught between two women. (eyeroll)

While you may think it doesn't show psychopathic behavior, I do. I think he could be just that calm and cunning. Or he could have just been menacing, and intimidating to a small woman if he insisted she go with him to watch his cage fighting match.

Wouldnt be the first woman that went with a man when she really didn't want to go because she was too fearful to say 'no.' Being intimidating is half of cage fighting.....being an intimidator helps overpower the opponent.

Walking to the vehicle doesnt mean she willingly left with him.... anymore than it does when other victims have walked away with their prepretrators and were found murdered.

In fact since we are on the theory section, imo, he has flip flopped victims. I think he murdered Tonya first, and Amy tried to flee, and when she did he shot her in the leg, and then he shot her in the chest to finish her off.

Anonymous said...

@ Pat Brown - just read what you wrote. I realize that you are not saying this is what happened, but it is what I have believed from the beginning. Just saying.

Anonymous said...

Does this DA have an Ace up his sleeve? We know they always hold their best evidence close to their vests.

Most .410 shotguns are either one shot or a double barrel. A .410 is used mostly to shoot small game, snakes or varmits. The reason they did such lethal damage in this case is they were fired within a very short distance from the victims.

So this seems to be a double barrel .410 which would mean the gun had to be reloaded when the first two shotgun shells were spent (Amy?) It takes only a few seconds to break the gun down, and pop the shells out, and reload but it would have to be done to shoot the second victim... twice.

So if he had a double barrel .410 this would explain why each victim was shot TWICE, and it would mean he had to reload in order to shoot Tonya if Tonya really was the last one murdered.

I have said all along what is going to put Beebe is prison for life is the evidence is not going to line up with his story.

Pat Brown said...

And you may be right, Anonymous. It will be interesting to see the bloodspatter pattern -if it hasn't been obliterated - because it may well tell the story of who was killed first and who was killed second. The evidence so far shows the women were not executed in that the shootings are so different (as far as I have heard and I want to see the autopsy report and blood spatter before I can make any real conclusion). Also, from what I have heard so far, Amy was shot in the leg which shows a level of carelessness or blind rage or poor shooting skills.

I look forward to being able to see the full information on the gun, the trailer, the bloodspatter, and the autopsy and doing a crime reconstruction to see how the shooting went down.

Anonymous said...

Or it could have been a double barrel and he could have shot each of the victims once with the first two in order to assure that they were not going to be able to escape. After using those first two, it would have been easy to reload, without fear of them leaving and now having time on his side in order to complete the last two shots.

Pat Brown said...

Ah, very good, Anonymous. Now that is thinking outside a box and considering all the possible scenarios. The blood spatter patterns and testing of whose blood is whose would be very important in determining, for example, if Amy were shot in the leg and moved some distance than there might have been time between the shots.

The motive still is puzzling. So far, in spite of everyone's protestations, Beebe's story is actually not bad (not sure about the self-defense part, but the part that Tonya could have shot Amy and Beebe then shot her). But, we have to be careful not to fit evidence to a motive theory instead of analyzing the evidence and having that tell us what happened which then would lead to motive. Of course, other behavioral evidence may also lead to motive, but we want to keep our minds open to a variety of possibilities and be sure we aren't manipulating or ignoring the evidence so we can have the pet theory,

Anonymous said...

The prosecutor must realize there is not enough evidence for 1st degree murder charges. There was no premediation. Until the foresensic evidence proofs otherwise, I believe that Tonya killed Amy and Beebe then killed hurt is a fit of rage--"Crime of passion/heat of the moment". Voluntary manslaughter no more.

Anonymous said...

Investigate to see if Amy was ever unfaithful to James in the past. James was too controlling to have no reason for his actions. I believe Amy was trapped in her marriage: no car, no cell phone, no freedom, no job, NO MONEY. I believe Jr made her feel attractive and put excitement in her life. I am sorry if the Henslee's had no money for her cell phone minutes or to get the car fixed...she should have been working while the kids were in school. Why did she quit Elder Behrman? Did she have an affair with a worker and James found out?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Or it could have been a double barrel and he could have shot each of the victims once with the first two in order to assure that they were not going to be able to escape. After using those first two, it would have been easy to reload, without fear of them leaving and now having time on his side in order to complete the last two shots.

March 9, 2011 9:39 AM
*******************************
Now that is one of the best theories I have seen.

Kudos. Great thinking!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The prosecutor must realize there is not enough evidence for 1st degree murder charges. There was no premediation. Until the foresensic evidence proofs otherwise, I believe that Tonya killed Amy and Beebe then killed hurt is a fit of rage--"Crime of passion/heat of the moment". Voluntary manslaughter no more.

March 9, 2011 3:33 PM
**********************************
Where do you get the jury can't come back with first degree verdicts? They most certainly can. Lesser included charges aren't uncommon in murder cases.

I think it is great if the defendant is convicted because it shows the jury had the option of second degree but found the evidence supported first degree instead.

I would think that would be a case harder to appeal than if the DA had only wanted first degree and gave the jurors no other options.

The mere two shots each can show premediation which can form in an instant. If a person 'thinks' it..then "acts" on those thoughts......they have premediated the crimes.

Anonymous said...

What is the evidence of 1st degree? Fact: It has not been proven the Jr killed Amy. Fact: There is no proof that he planned this murder. Fact: There is no proof that Amy did not go with Jr willingly. I'm sorry but there is no case for 1st degree and the prosecutor knows that! Until foresensics proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Jr killed Amy, my opinion is Tonya killed her and he in a fit od rage killed Tonya...no premeditation at all, just reaction instantly. It doesn't matter what was said, the forensics, phone records, toxilogy reports will tell the truth.

Anonymous said...

And there is no PROOF that this ISN'T first degree murder cases either!

That is also a FACT!

Unless the trial has already been held and I missed it.

None of us know what the FACTS are and won't until the trial is held.

Anonymous said...

The evidence will tell the story and therefore I am going with innocent until proven guilty but it will in no way be a first degree murder verdict. People are going to have to face the fact that Beebe will never get life without parole. If the prosecution had hard evidence, they would have sought 1st degree to ensure that he received life without parole.

Anonymous said...

http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-police-search-for-missing-woma-01252011,0,7836775.story

Anonymous said...

It really would benefit some people to really know what they are talking about before they spout off misinformation about Michigan laws.

* Open Murder: [MCL 767.71] -- MICHIGAN LAW does not require a prosecutor to choose between First Degree or Second Degree Murder when issuing a complaint, or even at trial. A prosecutor may charge "Open Murder", which is a combination of First and Second Degree Murder, and the jury may determine the appropriate degree based on the proofs.
04/05/2007 - Category: Legal Definitions - State: MI #2678
*****************************

All one needs to do is google to see how many open murder charges there are in Michigan and ummmm yes, those who were sent to prison for life.

Even saw the same open murder charges filed against a Michigan serial killer.

So don't hang your hat on Beebe doing less time just because in Michigan they have an open murder law.

Anonymous said...

I am fully aware of the Michigan Law. In fact I read it before posting and it confirmed my opinion. They are going for open murder because they don't have enough evidence for 1st degree murder and they want to at least have the chance for a guilty verdict. The key word is evidence. I hope there are some intelligent-open minded individuals in Van Buren County to be called for the jury. I know this is not a popular opinion but he will never recieve a 1st degree murder verdict. If he is convicted of 2nd degree murder he can get a variety of years for sentence but it will never be LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE.

Anonymous said...

It is like trying to read tealeaves to predict what the outcome will be even before the evidence is entered. You are saying the jury is going to believe his BS, hook, line and sinker. There is absolutely nothing to base that on since they havent even struck a jury nor have they had the trial where the evidence will be entered.

He doesn't have one obtacle to make disappear. He had two dead women, both shot twice, both buried by him, both in his tiny grungy trailer.

But here is a case where second degree was the conviction. Sounds pretty good to me, and, yes, life can mean life. Not everyone is granted parole even when eligible.
*********************************

April 20, 2010
Sentencing in Michigan Felony Cases
The trial judge in People v Pinkney sentenced defendant Jamar Pinkney to 35-80 YEARS after a jury found him guilty of Second Degree Murder and a handful of other charges. Because the defendant used a GUN in the commission of the crime and the jury found him guilty of felony firearm, the defendant must serve an additional 2 years, for a MINIMUM sentence of 37 years before he will be eligible for parole. Felony firearm charges essentially arise when a defendant uses a gun while committing a felony. Michigan law does not allow this 2 year felony firearm sentence to run concurrently with the larger felony sentence. Therefore, the defendant convicted of felony firearm must always serve an additional 2 years in prison. This is a mandatory sentence, and a trial judge does not have discretion to sentence a defendant to less than 2 years for a felony firearm conviction.

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GK in Pa said...

I'm not sure where the single shot
or double barrel idea came from. I
did see a photo here of whom I suppose was a DA holding a gun.It
was said to be at the P.H..It was
also said that was the gun. I am
a firearms expert and what he was holding was a pump gun. What that
means, is that following each shot
it must be manually pumped to cause
another shell to feed.There can
only be one shot fired between
each succesive action of the forearm. An unplugged magazine will
hold 4 to 6 shots.

Anonymous said...

GK in Pa,

Yes we had discussed that before the photo of the gun came out in the media.

I saw that it was a pump action and all I could do is visualize him pumping it four times and it sent chills up my spine. As you know the noise it makes each time just seems foreboding somehow even when it is used for hunting.

Thank you for your expertise.

Pat Brown said...

I believe you are both correct. It looks like a pump shotgun in the video when I paused it. A pump shotgun actually is better than a double barrel shotgun for the defense. Beebe (though this could be a lie and just an excuse to explain why he shot only Tonya and not both with four quick shots in a row) said the gun jammed which is more likely in a pump shotgun with a novice or a woman holding it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/155018/14/Double-murder-suspect-in-court-today

Anonymous said...

I think once all the evidence is released it'll be easier to make a determination, and perform an Adequate reconstruction of the events, until then everyones basically pissing in the wind and hoping to make lemonade.

My main focus would be presence of powder burns on Howarth, without them his entire explanation is blown out of the water; also the Type of GUN it was will be highly relevant.

J.Henslee was likely calling several times a day because he either 1) knew his wife was having an affair based on past adultery, or 2) strongly suspected it.
I think the reason he didn't say much to his cousin or openly express disbelief in his bogus story about not picking Amy up is simply becuase he was SCARED of BeBe; BeBe is an MMA fighter and would physically cream Mr. Henslee so he naturally didn't want to cause any undue confrontation.

I also strongly suspect he was indeed having an affair with her and IF the prence of gunpowder on Howarth, and the type of gun matches up he's likely to be mostly truthful in his recount. (except that it wouldnt be self defense, it would be a rage killing as you stated, self-defense dosent involve shooting someone who has their back turned.)