Thursday, March 10, 2011

Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: Why I think Beebe is (almost) telling the Truth

I am going to stick my neck out one more time on the Amy Henslee/Tonya Howarth case because, while all the evidence isn't in and won't be until the trial of Junior Lee Beebe, Jr, there is enough now that I feel comfortable proposing the theory that makes the most sense to me. And, I remind people once again, this is a theory, not a set of truths, and not an assignment of guilt. Theories are always in progress as one gathers more evidence. Even in "real" profiling - meaning I am working with a police department and have access to everything they do, theories are always in flux and this includes the ones the police develop. It is a process of analysis and a process of understanding, a process of uncovering the truth. It takes time and sometimes the truth never really comes out. Sometimes what people think is the truth turns out to be wrong. We can only do our best to analyze as objectively as we can and be willing to modify our theories as new information warrants changes. Everything here is an opinion - theories are opinions, no matter how scientific they are - nothing here is a legal determination. The court will be the final judge as to whether Junior Beebe is guilty or innocent and which crimes he will be convicted of, if any.

When Beebe was arrested, I was asked by The CBS Early Show if I thought he murdered both women, if he acted alone, and what the motive would be. Quite frankly, while I believed Beebe was there at the crime scene and killed at least Tonya for some reason, I had difficulty with any motive for Beebe murdering Amy. And the evidence (so far), indicates Amy was the target of the crime; she was shot face to face while Tonya was shot either running away or face down on the ground. If Tonya was shot first , Amy would been shot as she was trying to escape; the inner thigh wound and point blank chest wound would not likely be the result of the next two rounds.

Interestingly, Junior Lee Beebe Jr's confession and description of how the crime went down, matches the wounds on the body. Michigan State Police Detective Sgt. Diane Oppenheim testified to what Beebe told her and this was before he lawyered up and the autopsy came out. Although one can argue he had a few days to concoct a story that would match the evidence, the fact is the story does make sense except for the claim of self-defense; the homicide of Tonya Howarth would be an act of rage over the murder of Amy.

Since Amy would be the target of the crime, there is only one likely motive: jealousy. Jealousy on the part of Tonya or jealousy on the part of James Henslee. Now, herein lies a prime example as to why not being entirely truthful (or being deceptive) can make one a person of interest. James Henslee withheld information from law enforcement concerning the possible whereabouts of his wife and he may have not been truthful about what he believed or knew was going on with Amy. Now that I have a better timeline and better autopsy information, I believe I can rule out James Henslee as having any participation in the homicides of Amy and Tonya although I do believe he may have impeded the investigation. I will explain why.

In spite of some folks claiming Amy could have been threatened or abducted by Beebe, I believe the neighborhood witness who said she saw a woman who looked like Amy get into the car willingly is correct. I do not believe she was afraid of Beebe because she would have told James this. Also, no one has been saying that the four - James, Amy, BJ, and Tonya - had any falling out and refused to be around each other.

If Amy got into the truck willingly, she wanted to go with Beebe. If she did not call James before she went, she did not want him to know. When James found out Amy went with Beebe, red flags must have gone up for him. For her to do this behind his back suggests one of few things: sex or drugs or boredom, or a combination of these. Considering Amy was now staying at home, had no cell phone, and no house keys, and James was calling five or six times a day, I believe James was either a controlling husband or a worried one (or both).

So, when James found out where Amy had gone that Monday morning just about 10:45, he may well have been jealous or worried enough to drive straight over to Beebe's and see what was going on. And I think he did do that after he made his phone call to Beebe. I believe this likely this took place during the time that he said he was "cruising" around town.

James may have been jealous and this could be a motive or him to race over, blast in the door, grab the shotgun and kill his wife in a rage. Or he could have raced over and found his wife there but making a surprise present for him with the help of his cousin. But, there is a credible reason why James never actually showed up at the crime scene and this reason would take him off the person-of-interest list; Amy and Tonya were likely dead by the time James found out where his wife went.

Again, I believe Beebe was telling a basic truth when he said he picked up Amy and they were going to spend a little time together and then he was going to get her home before the 10 AM phone call came in from her husband. But before that hour arrived, Tonya was dropped off by Beebe's mother (assuming evidence doesn't show up that disproves this) by , found them together, and all hell broke loose.

There is further evidence that Beebe is telling the truth that Tonya went at Amy. Both women had some scrapes and bruises, the kind of thing a scuffle between two women would engender. They did not have contusions, smashed noses, and lacerations of the sort they would have gotten if a crazed psychopath went off on them. A struggle between the two women would cause minor injuries and the shot to the inner thigh of Amy likely the result of a gun that went off without any aiming involved. The second shot killing Amy would likely cause Beebe to be freaking out over her and give Tonya time to reload if it were a double barrel shotgun. Once he finds she is no longer alive, his attention would turn to Tonya, especially if she did say, "You're next!" However, if it was a pump shotgun (and it appears to be from the video I paused) all four shots could be shot in a row without reloading. Beebe says he was able to grab the gun when it jammed.

It makes more sense that Tonya might be the one who shot Amy if the shotgun was a pump. It is more likely for a novice or a woman who has less strength to short shuck a shotgun causing it to jam.

In their struggle for the gun, it is not unlikely that Beebe could have pulled the gun from her hands and slammed the butt of it into her kneecap, causing her to collapse to the floor.


Alternatively, he could have nailed her knee with a low martial arts sidekick with the same result. Once she hit the floor, he would pull the trigger two times quickly, aiming the barrel at the back of her head, killing Tonya instantly. There is blood in the doorway which makes sense. If Tonya charged in, she would have left the door open and when she fell to the floor it would be likely her head was in that location.

A slightly different scenario is also possible. Tonya could have been aiming at Beebe with the shotgun and Amy intervened and ended up getting shot in the struggle. Beebe could have pulled the shotgun from Tonya's hands, slammed the butt on her knee, knocking her to the ground, reloaded the gun himself, and fired the two shots into her head.

So, now we have Beebe sitting there wondering what the hell he is supposed to do now. He knows James is going to call at 10 AM as soon as Amy doesn't answer the phone. Sure enough, an hour later, the phone call comes in and James asks not if he knows where Amy is but if he came by the house. Beebe knows someone saw him pull up. So he admits he came by to borrow something but, when he knocked, Amy didn't answer.

Now, it only makes sense that James knew from the neighbor that Amy got in the truck (at this point Beebe doesn't know the neighbor also saw a girl get in the vehicle). Wouldn't he challenged Beebe? Wouldn't James say, "Wait a minute, my neighbor says she saw Amy get in the car." Remember how there was talk that the neighbor, being elderly, might have vision problems? I am sure Beebe said something like, "The neighbor must have been mistaken; she probably is blind as a bat."

James has to know Beebe is lying, but he probably wouldn't think it is because Beebe had two dead women in his trailer and didn't know what to do about it. Logically, James would hang up and drive over to Beebe's. Now, I have heard that Beebe left the property within that next hour (not a proven fact, but information from an anonymous source); he had a prior commitment and if he was trying to keep what happened a secret, he would have to pretend everything was normal. He would lock up the trailer and head out. If James arrived after he left, he would not find him or his wife there. He could have thought she went off with Beebe or with Tonya and, cross his fingers, she would be back by 3 PM with some explanation that he could accept. I don't think he saw the blood in the snow. I simply think he didn't see Beebe's truck at the front of the lot and so he would have gone home.

Now, 3 PM comes, his sons arrive home, and still no Amy. He knows something is strange, as he said on the 911 call, but I don't think he knows what exactly. He knows Amy left with Beebe and now he doesn't know where Amy and Beebe are or if they are still together, but he knows something is amiss. He calls the police but he does not tell the whole truth. I really don't think he wanted to call the police; I think he did so halfheartedly because he knew this is what he should do as a good husband, especially one whose wife is not involved in any questionable activities. He doesn't tell the police about Beebe and any of his suspicions; I believe he hoped Amy would eventually turn up with some good excuse and he wouldn't have to confront any unpleasant realities.

Unfortunately, Amy is truly missing. I question whether James ever told the police about Beebe, about Amy going with him, about Beebe telling him Tonya was also missing. From what I have read so far, it seems the police learned about Beebe from another source and they didn't learn about Tonya until they found her body buried alongside Amy's. At this point, I believe James simply said as little as possible, choosing not to find out the truth. If other family members hadn't brought in the search dogs (this is what I was told by an anonymous source) and the police hadn't found out about Beebe from someone other than James, it is possible the graves of Amy and Tonya would never have been found. Perhaps, this would have been preferable to James. Having a missing wife is very difficult but dealing with painful issues sometimes seems worse and it is often a human trait to simply shut down and not confront them. In a way, it may be that Beebe and James were doing the same thing from opposite sides of the crime. Both were deceptive and not forthcoming in order to protect themselves from added pain.

Many think Amy could not have been having an affair with Beebe; that he is using the affair as a lie to give Tonya a motive to commit murder. I tend to believe his statement is truthful. Beebe would be far better off NOT saying such a thing. It makes him look really bad to the community and a jury; it means he did his cousin wrong. He could look more innocent and decent if he just said he was hanging out with Amy watching videos and Tonya got it all wrong, that crazy, jealous paranoid woman.

Jame was asked in an interview what he would say to Beebe and he responded, "I would ask him what the hell is wrong with him?" That struck me strange the first time I heard it because it was not what one would expect someone to say to a person who had just brutally murdered his wife. But, if James actually believes himself that Beebe's has merit and Tonya did catch him him with Amy, then the statement makes sense. James would be terribly hurt and disgusted that his own cousin would go behind his back to make time with his wife. He would know Beebe didn't kill his wife but his bad behaviors pushed Tonya over the edge and put his wife in harm's way. As James said numerous times, Amy needed to be home where she would be safe.

If James really does believe Beebe's story - in his heart if not in his head - this would explain some of his odd interviews where he talked about Amy in glowing terms but did not show a lot of appropriate emotion. He wanted to remember his "perfect wife" and forget that maybe some of her own choices and behavior led her to that fateful day (and this is not about blaming the victim but understanding how crimes end up occurring). He may want to create a less painful memory to live with. I can understand this but, if it turns out as I believe it will that there is more to this story than many want to believe (Beebe = pure evil, James and Amy = pure goodness) , then he is going to have to deal with that when the defense presents its case in court.

And the most important issue they are going to address is why Amy went willingly with Junior Lee Beebe, Jr.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have a few questions about your "theory". If your believing BJ's defense then why didn't he just call police after Tonya supposedly killed Amy? A truly innocent person does not cover up a crime he/she didn't commit. Why place yourself with both murders? His story doesn't make sense with the self-defense claim, so obviously we know he's a liar. He's a proven liar so of course he's going to come up with best defense he can and blame it on a victim who no longer has a voice. He also lied to BOTH families when he was asked about the whereabouts of Amy and Tonya. He knew exactly where Amy and Tonya were, yet he was still posting on his Facebook to help find Amy. You also apparently don't know the size of the trailer or the location of it. The size of the trailer makes it impossible for Tonya and Amy to have "scuffled" and then for Tonya to grab a .410 shotgun, shoot Amy twice and reload before BJ could intervene. Why is it that there 3 people in the trailer and only 1 comes out with no scratches or wounds. There's blood at the door of the trailer because he kept them in there for 2 days while he was digging the grave (in frozen ground), and it is a very small trailer. Of course they are going to be laying there bleeding at the door when you leave bodies in there for days.
You haven't seen pictures of the victims either, so it's impossible to say that Tonya and Amy were fighting. BJ has an extensive history of domestic violence. It's very possible that those wounds came from him. It's definately in his nature. All your doing is promoting his pitiful defense and spreading more hurt to these families. Why is it that the prosecution states they can prove BJ killed both women and all his lawyer can come up with is "you gotta believe him, it makes sense." That doesn't sound like the defense has much of a defense. Also how can Tonya walk in on Amy and BJ when Tonya was seen (by the neighbor) picking up Amy with BJ? Here's a new theory for you: the three of them were hanging out and BJ and Tonya started fighting, Amy stepped in to try and help Tonya, BJ grabs a gun aims for Tonya and ends up shooting Amy. That's when Tonya tries to get away and he shoots her in the back of the head. Hmm.. that theory makes sense also and lines up with the wounds. But BJ knows there's going to be semen on Amy so he says it's consensual, to make him look better, than admitting that he raped her. So the new theory can go that Tonya walked in on BJ raping Amy, Amy is trying to fight BJ off, and Tonya tries to get BJ off Amy, in turn making BJ mad. He grabs a gun, aims for Tonya and hits Amy. Tonya tries to flee and he shoots her twice in the back of the head. Just giving you more theories instead of the pitiful one you choose to believe. His story has too many holes and he has no good explanation for covering it up instead of coming forward. Wouldn't he rather turn Tonya in and watch her spend HER life in prison, instead of being blamed for both murders, if he is truly innocent in it all?

Anonymous said...

Pat-
With all due respect, I would like to point out a small typo made in paragraph four, where it is written James Howarth, instead of James Henslee as it should be. I would also like to say this is a very good theory, one I tend to go with myself. I live here in Hartford, but do not know any of the people involved in this sordid mess. I want you to know that you are doing a very good job with all the vicious postings from some family members who believe that their loved ones can do no wrong. I see both sides of this controversy-each has good points-but the truth is that they are simply human, just like we all are and so they did make mistakes. Junior Beebe's trial is set to start on June 14-so things will really get interesting. I do feel sympathy for the family members who post and yet I also see the good points you are bring up. You may well be right in this newest analysis, I have felt this way all along. Very good job, Pat-I am impressed. And to the family, I do send my sympathy and understanding. Please, no more hostility! Everyone is human-and that includes Amy and James, Tonya too-and yes, even Junior.

Anonymous said...

There is one point I am curious about-what about the report from the neighbor who saw someone who looked like Amy get into the black truck with supposedly Junior and another woman? if that is true, then Tonya would have been there already, instead of bursting in on Amy and Junior. I want to comment about the Facebook pictures that caused so much uproar-I remember reading that the pictures were uploaded after the murders. Interesting, to say the least.

Anonymous said...

I thought Beebe stated that Amy was sitting on the bed watching the video when Tonya came in and picked up the shotgun (which I think was standing right by the door as most are in hunting trailers) and shot her? So how could there have been time for any defensive wounds caused by Tonya? The ME said the gun was fired from three feet away.

I thought Beebe was known to stay at his mother's home in another town. Even if James went to where Beebe stayed it wouldnt have been at the rinky dink tiny trailer back in the woods on his uncle's land.

I dont think James has held anything back from LE and LE doesn't think so either... including the Michigan State Police.

JH was the first one to identify the truck as belonging to his cousin, Jr. when he found out about the black truck sighting. That came out in the media the next morning after Amy went missing. So what was he hiding? Nothing.

Where is the link that he called her 5 times a day? I thought he said he called her on his breaks? Why is that unusual to you? Gee, let me chastize my hubby for thinking about me during the day. I heard from him 4 times yesterday when he was at work and he always calls me everyday. Never mind I think I will give him a big hug and kiss instead when he gets home and thank him for being the thoughtful loving hubby he has always been to me.

You could be right that Amy was having an affair with Beebe but that never means that James knew about it and covered it up. The spouse is always the last one to know. Just ask the millions of people that found out they had been cheated on. Everyone knew it but them.

I do wonder to this day why LE did not go directly to Beebe's mom's house to speak with him when they knew the truck leaving her residence was his. So that makes me think they could find no connection to them having an affair and simply bought his story at the time that he dropped by.

See I can see Amy trying to flee and him blocking the doorway and shooting her first in the leg to stop her and then shooting her in the chest to finish her off. No need to walk around the back and shoot her in the head when she was trying to escape. He knew chest shots are just as fatal.

I think he went ballistic when Tonya started raising hell at HIM telling HIM she was going to tell James and everyone else what a low life POS he is and he shot her thinking Amy would just stay put, but then Amy too was trying to get away from him and he killed her too so no witness could be left behind to tell what had happened.

If Amy was cheating on James then my heart goes out to him even more. It will be heartbreaking having to deal with that knowing the person he loved did this, but imo, like a lot who are cheated on.. they will still love that person nevertheless.

But I think Amy just went to watch the damn cage fighting video and maybe smoke a little dope and got caught up in all the mess when Tonya was madder than hell at Beebe and threatening to expose him.

Anonymous said...

Pat-
You are right on the money!! I agree 100%. I can only hope that the defense has the ability to present this properly in court. The neighbor TESTIFIED TO ONLY SEEING 2 PEOPLE IN THE TRUCK. Check the transcripts. James thought he could keep his marital problems a secret and I feel bad for him but the truth will come out.

Anonymous said...

A few of the comments read with such mean, hateful words. Your words don't bother me, I understand your frustration, but you are making yourselves feel miserable. I do respect your opinions but you will have to learn to respect the others that post on this blog. I will agree to disagree but until evidence proves otherwise, I cannot join your lynch mob to have Beebe sealed away for life. If I were on the jury today with the facts so far, he would be not guilty of Amy's murder, and hopefully manslaughter of Tonya's (crime of Passion). The judge can add that as an option.

Anonymous said...

Pat-
Please correct me if I am wrong: I understand it was the family that took the tracking dog over the Beebe's and they alerted the LE to their find. When exactly did the LE find out that Beede had been seen leaving with Amy on Monday? I am thinking it was the neighbor that told them NOT James. Why did they state at the news conference on early Thurs morning that they thought Amy was alive? What evidence brought them to that conlusion? If James had reason to believe that Amy had gone with Beebe that morning and did not report it immediately that day, may God have mercy on his soul!!

Anonymous said...

The neighbor did not know who the driver was. They only knew they saw a black truck leaving the Henslee residence. Some articles say they saw one but wasn't sure it was Amy and then other articles have said the neighbor saw two females getting into the black truck.

It was James Henslee what identified the truck as having to belong to Beebe when he heard the description of the black truck from the neighbor. That is when he called Beebe and Beebe lied and said he had dropped by but no one was home.

We knew about the black truck belonging to Beebe when James came out to the media and told everyone and that was the day after Amy went missing.

Amy was dead before James even got off work to come home and see what was wrong. Beebe himself said that Amy knew she had to be back before James called at 10. The reason she didn't come back is she was dead by then.

Pat Brown said...

My answers to questions above:

"I have a few questions about your "theory". If your believing BJ's defense then why didn't he just call police after Tonya supposedly killed Amy?"

If he shot Tonya, then he wasn't innocent of homicide. Do I agree with what he did? No. He should never have shot Tonya unless it was truly in self-defense. Should he have buried the bodies? No.

(BTW, the scenario Anonymous proposed above that Tonya came in and threatened to tell James about Beebe and Amy isn't a bad theory; one can see how this could be so. Then, Beebe could go crazy and things got out of hand and Beebe shoots Tonya and Amy gets hit and then...dunno, he finishes her off. I think we would see a different kind of trauma to the women's bodies and under those circumstances and a different story coming from Beebe, so it doesn't work for me, but it is a good hypothesis to analyze).

If my scenario is accurate, Beebe's bad choices (of staying in a relationship with a volatile girlfriend and maybe cheating on her and maybe stabbing a friend in the back and, maybe doing drugs, and maybe having a shotgun around available for unstable people - including himself - to pull the trigger in anger) got him in a bunch of trouble. He will have to pay for his actions and stupid choices as he did before when he got arrested for a bunch of things he did that were not legal.

Tonya paid for her choices with her life. Amy paid for her choices with her life. Very sad, but this is what happens when you don't hang out with the best of people or put yourself in unsafe environments.

As for James, he lied to the police; there is no question of this. He did NOT tell them that Beebe came to his house and his wife went off with him. Even when the police officer on the 911 call asked him if he saw any tire tracks or footprints, he did not tell mention the neighbor saw someone drive up to his house and a woman came out and got in his car. Even when he was asked when he thought Amy went missing, James does not mention the Beebe coming over.

James also tells the police there is no marital discord and no use of drugs on Amy's part. It remains to be seen at trial whether these two statements are also untrue.

When you call the police to request their help and you spend taxpayer money to search for your wife, you don't lie to the police. Wasting their time or sending them off in the wrong direction or preventing them from possibly saving a person's life (what if Amy and Tonya were tied up at Beebe's?) is reprehensible and criminal.

It still remains to be learned why James was deceptive. Whatever the reason, he is responsible for choices to not tell the truth. If he has people question, therefore, his involvement in the crime, then it is no one's fault but his own. I still don't really know why James didn't want the police to go after Beebe and find his wife. Maybe the trial will bring this out.

Pat Brown said...

My answers to questions above:

"I have a few questions about your "theory". If your believing BJ's defense then why didn't he just call police after Tonya supposedly killed Amy?"

If he shot Tonya, then he wasn't innocent of homicide. Do I agree with what he did? No. He should never have shot Tonya unless it was truly in self-defense. Should he have buried the bodies? No.

(BTW, the scenario Anonymous proposed above that Tonya came in and threatened to tell James about Beebe and Amy isn't a bad theory; one can see how this could be so. Then, Beebe could go crazy and things got out of hand and Beebe shoots Tonya and Amy gets hit and then...dunno, he finishes her off. I think we would see a different kind of trauma to the women's bodies and under those circumstances and a different story coming from Beebe, so it doesn't work for me, but it is a good hypothesis to analyze).

If my scenario is accurate, Beebe's bad choices (of staying in a relationship with a volatile girlfriend and maybe cheating on her and maybe stabbing a friend in the back and, maybe doing drugs, and maybe having a shotgun around available for unstable people - including himself - to pull the trigger in anger) got him in a bunch of trouble. He will have to pay for his actions and stupid choices as he did before when he got arrested for a bunch of things he did that were not legal.

Tonya paid for her choices with her life. Amy paid for her choices with her life. Very sad, but this is what happens when you don't hang out with the best of people or put yourself in unsafe environments.

As for James, he lied to the police; there is no question of this. He did NOT tell them that Beebe came to his house and his wife went off with him. Even when the police officer on the 911 call asked him if he saw any tire tracks or footprints, he did not tell mention the neighbor saw someone drive up to his house and a woman came out and got in his car. Even when he was asked when he thought Amy went missing, James does not mention the Beebe coming over.

James also tells the police there is no marital discord and no use of drugs on Amy's part. It remains to be seen at trial whether these two statements are also untrue.

When you call the police to request their help and you spend taxpayer money to search for your wife, you don't lie to the police. Wasting their time or sending them off in the wrong direction or preventing them from possibly saving a person's life (what if Amy and Tonya were tied up at Beebe's?) is reprehensible and criminal.

It still remains to be learned why James was deceptive. Whatever the reason, he is responsible for choices to not tell the truth. If he has people question, therefore, his involvement in the crime, then it is no one's fault but his own. I still don't really know why James didn't want the police to go after Beebe and find his wife. Maybe the trial will bring this out.

Anonymous said...

As for James, he lied to the police; there is no question of this. He did NOT tell them that Beebe came to his house and his wife went off with him.???How is that a lie bRANIACK?

Pat Brown said...

I never blamed Amy for what happened to her. I said she was responsible for her choices and sometimes our choices put us in harm's way. If a prostitute gets killed by a john, the john is guilty of murder but the prostitute was living a dangerous lifestyle. If Beebe was as violent as some claim, a meth user as some claim, it is not a wise idea to go to a secluded place with him.

If Tonya killed Amy, then she definitely put herself in harm's way. Tonya was also supposedly in a relationship that was volatile; this put her in harms' way. Beebe did the same by being in such a relationship and by bringing Amy back to his trailer. He put himself in harm's way. Anyone doing drugs, especially meth, puts themselves in harm's way and so does everyone who associates with them.

I am not saying anyone deserved to be murdered; this is a horrible crime and the one perpetrating such a crime should pay a serious penalty. I am a death penalty supporter and I believe in strong sentencing. But, I also try to warn people to recognize that their own choices can put them in bad situations to become a victim.

It is always very sad when things go bad and stuff happens that we never thought would happen, but this is why we should teach out children to stay away from drugs and too much alcohol and keep our marital vows and honor in relationships and pick friends that will not get us into trouble. Especially when we have children to take care of; we must curtail any questionable activities so that we can be there to raise them. Now, we have a bunch of children without mothers, one devastated father, and one father likely spending time in prison. What a sad mess.

Anonymous said...

That's true, BJ's family doesn't either, but I was referring to the family left behind that will never see their loved ones again. My mistake!

Anonymous said...

Pat - your theory is a good one. I still believe though that he shot each woman once with the first two shots of a double barrel, then having time to reload since they were both injured, killed them with the final two shots after reloading.

As far as the rest of the stuff....I don't know. I don't know that I believe that Amy and BJ were having an affair. I don't know that I believe that Tonya walked in and was angry at both of them for whatever reason. I do believe that Beebe killed both women, the reason why is yet to be learned.

Pat - I do have to say that I was one person that did not agree with your earlier blogs. I have since changed my mind and have decided that it is best to wait and learn everything else as the rest of the world does. I do not believe it is detrimental to the case to present your theories. I apologize for earlier voicing my disagreement with your theories. Also, I believe that some others owe a apology....especially those that can't call you by your proper name and think it's funny to make up a name, but one that is obviously referring to you.

Pat Brown said...

You may end up being right, Anonymous. This is why it all has to be proven in a court of law. Hopefully. Even when the jury makes their decision, people may still have differing opinions as to what the evidence proved. OJ certainly still has a massive number of people saying they believe he is guilty regardless of the fact the trial ended up with him being declared, "Not guilty." I still think the Chandra Levy case was a travesty and the Martha Moxley case as well. What it means in the end is that legally the person is found innocent of the crimes, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees with the verdict. And, if Beebe is found guilty of both homicides and is sentenced to life in prison, some will think justice was served and some will think it wasn't. It always is nice if the case IS proved beyond a reasonable doubt in the jury's mind and the public's mind. I think very few people would say that justice wasn't served in the case of Ted Bundy, but that was a pretty easy case to prove! This case is going to be much more difficult because, in the end, there will probably be a case of experts being convincing in their analysis of the forensics and behaviors.

Anonymous said...

So "what if" Amy and BJ were having an "affair", why would she go to a nasty ass trailer, in the cold. wouldn't it of been just easier for her to roll over from the comfort of her own bed to answer the phone when James called?

Pat Brown said...

Not saying Amy was having an affair, but I can think of a number of reasons why someone would go to that trailer and not have male company in their home.

1) She might be afraid hubby would come home and catch them.

2) She might feel uncomfortable doing such things in her own bed and worried about leaving any evidence.

3) Maybe it wasn't about sex, but about being bored and getting out of the house.

4) Maybe they wanted to smoke a joint and the trailer was a safe place to do this.

As for the nastiness of the trailer, this is very subjective. Upscale folk have been known to go to sleazy motels for trysts because of convenience or because they don't think they will know anyone there and some people like the thrill of a cheap encounter.

When drugs are involved, people will go to some pretty crappy places to do them, so we find even wealthy people hanging out in places you wouldn't probably want to go.

The fact is, Amy did go there, so she didn't have an issue with it. If there turns out to be evidence she had been there before, then she didn't have an issue with the location. If it was a first time, maybe she didn't know much about the trailer's amenities.

My car broke down in Ohio once and my motel turned out to have big pink naked ladies on the industrial black carpet, a broken telephone, no door knob on the bathroom door and a parking lot full of people sitting on cars drinking Schlitz Malt Liquor. I had a good laugh and I stayed the night.

Anonymous said...

How do we know Amy went willingly to Beebe's trailer? All that we've been able to learn (outside of the case file) is that a person that fits Amy's profile was seen getting into what was suspected of being Beebe's truck, but do we know whether Beebe held her at gun point or threatened her in other ways? Maybe Tonya was already dead prior to Amy's arrival to the trailer, but Beebe lured Amy to the trailer asking for help because Tonya needed help?

It is possible that Tonya and Beebe got into a heated argument, Beebe pulled out his gun and shot Tonya, then lured Amy to the trailer as a plea for help.

It's also possible Beebe had a shotgun with him when he arrived at the house to "pick-up" Amy, forcing her into the truck out of a fit of jealous rage while he was on a meth high.

There is nothing to suggest with 100% guarantee that Amy did go willingly.

Pat Brown said...

I can agree that there might be some very hidden methodology that got Amy to go with Beebe that wasn't of her free will. The witness did not see anything happening that looked like Amy was being abducted and there was no struggle at the house. Could Beebe have come up with some weird story? Possibly, but one would think Amy would have called James then before she left. It is true is is possible but it is not likely probable. I think past behaviors when these are eventually brought out will validate one way or the other and be brought out in the trial. If nothing in the past suggests that Amy would have left with Beebe willingly, then the prosecution will surely use this as part of their case and then there could be a justification for Murder One if Beebe is also proven to have shot Amy. If she went willingly, this doesn't DISPROVE Beebe had some hidden agenda and could have planned to do something to her, but it would be harder for the prosecution to make that case. If the defense is able to document that Amy had left the home before and spent time with Beebe at his place, then the jury is very likely to conclude she went willingly and Beebe had no premeditated plan to rape and/or kill her.

The prosecution doesn't have to prove motive in order to get a guilty verdict, but when there could be a question of who did what, the jury usually feels a need to have a good motive so that they feel comfortable with finding the person guilty. If a police officer had heard a gunshot and ran to the scene and found a dead woman tied up with a man standing over her with a smoking gun, well, it doesn't much matter why he tied her up and shot her. But, in this case, unless the prosecution can prove irrefutably that Beebe shot both women, they need to discern a motive for Beebe killing Amy.

Pat Brown said...

I have deleted posts with swear words and insults and aggressive attacks against others' opinions. Differing opinions concerning the topic are welcome and educational.

My thanks to those who made efforts to defend me against those who feel a need to attack the messenger rather than the message. I have removed these posts in keeping with staying on topic.

Pat

Anonymous said...

I think it is human curiousity to want to know why. Imo, a juror though takes their duties very seriously. I have been a juror several times and each time I knew motive was not an element the state was required to prove.

In all honesty the only one that knows the true motive anyway is the murderer and even if they give a story it doesnt mean it is truth or even half truths.

In the end I knew what was important was if the evidence showed the person was guilty of the crime BARD then it was my duty to render a verdict of guilty whether the motive was known or not and if the state did not meet its burden, I was obligated to vote not guilty.

I dont think any jury will ignore the evidence before them just because they may not know the motive. They respect the law and follow the law and the jury instructions.

Anonymous said...

While the witness may not have seen anything to suggest an abduction doesn't necessarily mean one did not occur. This could explain why Amy did not call James - she was being taken away against her will.

Another theory is that Beebe could have provided a convincing enough story that suggested a sense of urgency, and Amy may have reacted to what Bebee was claiming first which could explain why she didn't call James.

One issue that concerns me about your theory is that if an affair was taking place between Amy and Bebee, the affair would have been known throughout the community. It is well known and documented by professionals that study human behaviors and traits that in a small community behaviors and affairs of others are well known in a very short period of time.

If Amy and Bebee were having an affair this affair would have been known throughout the community. This is evident by the fact that the neighbour appears to be keeping a watchful eye on the house and was quick to come forward as a witness to report that Amy was seen during the day in question getting into Bebee's vehicle. So the question is what else has the neighbour witnessed over a period of time? Has this been a regular pattern by Amy and Bebee or a one-time incident?

This would explain why James didn't suspect Amy leaving with Bebee at first because James had no reason to suspect Amy and Bebee were having an affair. We also don't know as a matter of fact that James spoke with the neighbour prior to the 911 call - he may not have learned about the neighbour's information until the interview by the police.

Anonymous said...

I feel bad for all involved. If Tonya killed Amy it was done in a fit of rage. Had Beebe not then killed Tonya, I wonder what the comments would have said. Would their opinion be that Tonya deserved 1st degree murder? I certainly hope not. Tonya would not have deserved 1st degree murder, it would have been a crime of passion. Beebe does not deserve 1st degree either.

Anonymous said...

I find this part of this article very interesting about what Beebe first told LE and we also heard before the arrest that two women had been seen that morning with Beebe.
*********************************
At FIRST, Beebe told her he'd gone to Henslee's home WITH Howarth, knocked on the door and left. At the time, Howarth, his girlfriend of about five years, hadn't been reported missing.
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Beebe-in-court-for-Henslee-Howarth-case
******************************

Anonymous said...

If Tonya had shot Amy once in a fit of rage.......maybe....second degree but to shoot her twice shows premediation with the intent to murder and that is first degree.

But I don't believe a word out of Beebe's mouth or his changing stories.

I dont think Tonya killed anyone ever in her life.

Pat Brown said...

Yes, Anonymous,the reporting has been confusing. In this one, Beebe told the detective he went with Howarth to the Henslee's but it is likely that he might have claimed that before the evidence was discovered in order to explain the woman the neighbor saw him with.

It would be nice to see the interviews from the police reports to know who exactly said what and when.

Anonymous said...

We unfortunately don't know what was said. There have been so many innaccuracy's reported. What will go into evidence is that the neighbor testified an the preliminary hearing (and we have no reason to think she will change her testimony at the trial)that she saw a man driving the black truck and a women that appeared to possibly be Amy get into the truck and leave. She testified she saw only 2 people in that truck. Before Beebe was arrested he stated that he and Tonya had gone to Henslee's but no one was home. He latered confessed to killing Tonya, changed his story about reaons for going to the house, etc. It has been commented by some that Beebe is a liar and nothing he has said is true. Well, then, doesn't that include his statement about bringing Tonya with him to Amy's house? These people still want to believe that Tonya was with him. None of us has asked the neighbor face to face what she saw...and that includes the reporters and news people.It is all third party and the story changed each time it was repeated. Perhaps it was reporters (not checking their facts and reporting hearsay and gossip as gospel) that started the story about her seeing 2 women in the truck.She never told James that she saw 2 women in the truck and I'm not certain that James ever said she did report 2 women...end of story. Please correct me if I am wrong or stop trying to bring the 2nd women (Tonya) as being seen in the truck. It was reported on a 13news video by the friend-spokeswoman the three stories that were "supposedly" told. 1) That a man in a black truck pulled up and went to the door but then left.- Not true. This was never said by the neighbor...James reported that Beebe told him that. 2.) That a man driving a black truck pulled into the driveway and a women who appeared to maybe be Amy entered the truck and the 2 of them left together in the truck (2 people only). - True...she testified to this statement. 3.) That the friend-spokewoman's husband and someone else were handing out the flyers in the neighborhood and that the neighbor told the husband or who he was with that she say 2 women in the truck.- Not true...not that the husband was lying however he probably misunderstood what she was saying The spokeswoman-friend even appeared to be confused by that story too...so an innocent misunderstanding makes sense.

Anonymous said...

I think O.J did it.

Anonymous said...

Well I have read several articles about what was testified to in court and now I firmly do believe James Henslee told LE about talking to Beebe on the first day Amy went missing, and I do believe the female detective interviewed Beebe about the so called... come by.

That is when he told the bald face lie to the detective that Howarth was with him when he went to the Henslee home and no one answered.

All the articles stresses at the time when he said that no one knew Tonya was even missing.

So just as I thought. James hid nothing from LE.

Anonymous said...

There are some key pieces of information I need before I can form an opinion.

1) When was Tonya taken to the trailer?
2) How was Amy dressed? Was it the same as when James last saw her? How was Tonya dressed?
3) Could she have re-entered the home had she returned willingly before 10:00 am?
4) Did James check with the school when he was initially looking for Amy (before noon)?
5) Was the black truck seen by the neighbor often during the morning time in previous days?
6) Was there drugs in Amy or Tonya?

Pat Brown said...

Excellent questions, especially Number 4.

1) I have an answer to that but it was told to me in confidentiality and I cannot say there is a second person to validate the accuracy of the statement.

2) We have not heard yet and the state of dress would be very important.

3) Supposedly the back door was open.

4) Good question; one would think this would have crossed his mind.

5) We have not heard if the truck had been seen at other times coming to the Henslee's and Amy leaving the home. If it had, this would show a pattern and would be good support for Amy leaving of her own free will.

6) We haven't heard about the toxicology report yet.

Anonymous said...

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/155018/14/Double-murder-suspect-in-court-today

Anonymous said...

2) How was Amy dressed? Was it the same as when James last saw her? How was Tonya dressed?

Medical examiner testified Amy's shirt was inside out.

Pat Brown said...

I haven't seen or heard the medical examiner's report other than the general wounds caused by the shotgun.

An inside shirt usually means someone hurriedly redressed which might support something going on which was interrupted by the arrival of someone.

Or, if it were me, I would have just been half asleep and put my shirt on inside out before leaving the house..heh...done that too many times...so it would be important to determine how careful Amy was in dressing on a daily basis.

Anonymous said...

Did the autopsy state Amy's shirt was inside out or was an inside shirt? An inside shirt to me it is usually worn underneath other clothing...like a short sleeve or langsleeve t-shirt or maybe a thermal shirt... although they can also be worn without other layers of clothing too.

If we go by Beebe's story Amy had no time to even put on a shirt hurriedly. Didn't he say when Tonya came in Amy was siting on the bed watching his last cage match?

If Tonya shot Amy from three feet away then Amy was dead by the time Tonya had walked 7 feet into that dinky trailer if she walked the length of it and if she walked side to side she was 3-4 feet from her when she entered.

He said Tonya and Amy struggled for the gun and uh hmmm, just what was he doing? Kicked back with his feet up watching? Where was Beebe positioned when all hell was breaking loose and metal pellets were spraying out of a shotgun barrel in that little tin can of a trailer?

Imo, nothing Beebe has said makes sense to me.

Anonymous said...

The entire theory doesn't make sense - it sounds more like speculation rather than a theory because a theory is presumed to have nearly all of the evidence to make such claims. As we have been enlightened to in this thread, more evidence is being brought out which will continue to happen, meaning that at this point we can only speculate rather than theorize about the situation.

Anonymous said...

Pat ,,alot of this does not make sense and everyone has to be aware of that..What was Beebe's motive for all of a sudden committing a double homocide of his girlfriend and his cousin's wife..We have heard his story about what happened and no one in the family or friends believed that he had an affair with James wife..So Pat,,what do you think the motive was behind all the murders,,I would really appreciate you commenting more on this story and not giving in to the complaints or threats of the family and friends...Just be yourself, and profile how you normally would.
Thank you...

Anonymous said...

PS,,have there been any results in, as to his girlfriend having GSR[gun shot residue] on her person or clothes?
Thank you..

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
PS,,have there been any results in, as to his girlfriend having GSR[gun shot residue] on her person or clothes?
Thank you..

March 15, 2011 1:33 AM
*******************************

That would not tell LE anything. Once the gun was fired gunshot residue would settle on everything...especially in a close small confined space as this one. Once it explodes out of the barrel it becomes airborne.

Victims always have gunpower residue on them IF they are shot at close range like Tonya was. I imagine both victims have gunshot residue on their clothing and persons.

Of course Beebe would have had GSR on him too but it was 4 days before they even found the bodies. So by that time he would have been able to change clothes and wash the GSR away.

pumpy2008 said...

But would she not have a more concentrated amount on her hand if she had pulled the trigger? And what about her finger prints ,,on the gun or not?
And what is his proof of an affair> Can Beebe put the 2 of them together at another time with witnesses?

Anonymous said...

If my memory serves me correctly, Beebe will be back in court on 6/14/11. Pat, hopefully you will continue to update us on the findings? Great profile!

lindah said...

Pat - are u still following this case. Reports state jury selection to begin..