You can join, but not your spouse. Sorry. |
I have received some urgent emails and messages from people letting
me know that someone using my name and photo has started a racist group on
Meetup: White Women Yoga, a group that declines all requests from POC (People
of Color) to join the group.
No one is using my name and photo to run this group. I,
myself, have started this group along with White Women Walkers and Caucasian
Camera Buffs. Horrified? So are many others who are outraged - Black and White
and Asian and Hispanic – the hate mail pours in and the angry mob is telling
Meetup to take down these racist groups and even contacting the NAACP and CNN
and MSNBC and television stations local to DC to inform them of these hate
groups, especially White Women Yoga which seems to be getting people the most
upset (after all, yoga was started in India by Brown people).
So, why, WHY, did I do this? As the hate mail poured in
about the White Women Yoga group, I was finishing up a month in India, touring
schools with my Indian friends who run a charity which I support and sponsor
poor children’s education. I am a mother of two biracial children and one black
son. What gives?
India 2019 |
What gives is Meetup is an organization that promotes
separatism and racism and has been doing so for over a decade. There are more
than 800 one-race-only groups that Meetup supports and promotes. In fact, Meetup
kept sending me emails about joining these groups and when I tried, my
membership was declined solely based on my photo. I tweeted to Meetup about
this problem as I live in Prince George’s County, Maryland where my race (White)
is a minority (13%). Most community groups (not Meetup) near to me that I join
are mostly Black which is fine with me because of the demographics. I even am
part of a line dance group in which I am the only White because the group uses
soul and R&B music and happens to be in a predominately Black area. Because
this group is county run, it is not allowed to discriminate against Whites and
so I can be a part of it. This is the music I love to dance to and I am happy
to be cheerfully accepted as a member of this line dance group.
But, Meetup, not so much. Based on my photo, I am not
allowed in. One group that declined me specifically said the group was only for
people of African/African American descent. I asked what was the percentage of
African descent I would need to be to join. I got no answer. What would happen
to my 3/4 White, 1/4 Black granddaughter? Would she not be allowed to join a
group with women who look like her mother, relatives and friends? Would my biracial
son not be allowed to join because someone thought from his photo he was Hispanic?
Maybe my biracial daughter might pass muster and my black son but why would
they want to join a group which would not allow their PONEC (People of Not
Enough Color) spouses, family and friends to join? For that matter, why would any
nonracist Black person want to be part of a group that denies membership based
on color? Interestingly, many of the Black persons who requested membership in
White Women Yoga (obviously to see what would happen and to send me a
blistering message that I was a racist) were themselves members of several Black-Only
Meetup groups. I, myself, find any one-race-only group appalling and would
never join a group that would refuse membership to someone who didn’t match the
chosen color.
So, after being declined membership in these groups, I
tweeted Meetup.
I am a White woman who
lives in the DC area (Prince George’s County, Maryland) and I have found I am
locked of many dozens of groups in my area because the organizers label the
groups as Black, African-American, Mahogany, People of Color, etc. This seems
to be a way of keeping White people from joining. These are women’s groups,
travel groups, photography groups, etc, which should have no need to attach
race to joining requirements. I’d like to know why Meetup is allowing this
blatant racism which is against policy. {or so I thought}
Meetup replied:
Meetup fosters
communities of people centered on shared interests or common identities. Meetup
is a diverse community and group identities can be centered around gender,
race, religion, political affiliations, or language, among many other things.
We believe there is a
Meetup group for everyone, Pat. We’d love to help you find one that works for
you. Let us know if we can help?
I responded:
So, you will help me
find a group that accepts white people?
No response from Meetup.
I further tweeted:
So, what you are
saying, since I cannot join groups that require me to be a POC (Person of
Color), I can start White Photographers, White Women Travel, and White DC
Socializers?
No response.
I wanted to be sure I was understanding that Meetup was
actually permitting one-race-only groups who could discriminate and refuse
members of another race (like the White golf clubs of the old days who refused
Black members and this was eventually outlawed). So I wrote Meetup for clarification.
I received this response from the Meetup Integrity Team (yes, their INTEGRITY
team).
“We allow groups to
come together based on a common identity. If a member wants to create a group
to connect with their ethnicity, be it Black, Asian, or what have you, they are
more than welcome to do so.
There is nothing wrong
with people wanting to meet with other people and create a private space with
others who share the same culture or identity.
This includes you. If
you feel the need to have a private space to connect with other white folks,
you are allowed to do so.
Now bear in mind, and
this applies to all groups regardless of their identities, within your description
we recommend refraining from mentioning who
you do not allow (bolding Meetup’s). Rather, we recommend focusing on who you do allow (bolding Meetup’s).
Regarding members who
complain against you, I highly recommend refraining from engaging them, and
instead remove them from your group.
Best,
Dwayne
Senior Integrity Specialist
Meetup HQ
Wow! I was shocked! In this day and age, one-race-only
groups should be a thing of the past. There is quite a difference between a
group that happens to be one race because of the neighborhood it exists in (like
a Black church which might be 100% Black because that is who lives nearby but
if a White person moved into the neighborhood, they might attend as well) or a
country line dance group that was 100% White because of the neighborhood being predominately
White and White people being the biggest fans of country music (but if there
was a Black person in the area who loved country line dance, they might join as
well). And there is nothing wrong with having a group of friends of one color
you go golfing with or picnicking with or party with at your home. But to
specifically permit and promote one-race-only groups like Meetup does should be
abhorrent and illegal, but it has been going on for over a decade and no one is
saying anything. So, I started three White-Only groups with the blessing of Meetup
and all hell has broken loose, especially with the White Women Yoga group I
based on a Black-Only Yoga Group with more than 300 members called Yoga is 4 Black Girls. I cut and pasted
their description changed Black to White for my group.
Their description:
This Meetup group is
to allow space for Black women to gather in the name of yoga, surrounded by the
supportive community of Black people, Black yoga instructors, and all around
safe Black spaces.
My description:
This Meetup group is
to allow space for White women to gather in the name of yoga, surrounded by the
supportive community of White people, White yoga instructors, and all around
safe White spaces.
Here are just a sample of the many, many angry messages I
have received:
You’re a dumb racist.
I hope you feel unsafe outside of your ignorant Klan meetup.
You racist POS.
This is a group for
only one race? You’ve GOT to be joking!
You cannot establish a
group based n race, color or ethnicity and restrict “everyone”… that’s called
Racism and it should not be allowed on this platform.
Your racist group is
disgusting.
Just read about your
group online. Shame on you for being so racist and hateful. It’s people like
you who are destroying our country.
What is wrong with
you? This is the most racist hateful thing and it goes against the principles
of yoga. It is black history month for god’s sake! Educate yourself!
An all-White meeting
condemning others is “not safe” has gotta be one of the most racist things I’ve
ever seen.
This is absolutely disgusting.
White women don’t need a “safe” space.
I’m half white. Can I
join?
Considering that yoga
as a traditional and spiritual practice comes from the common Indian community,
it feels concerning, in the least, to take this practice and then refuse to
allow the exact people it culturally comes
from any access to the community. It’s racist. Please delete the group.
Where have these people been for the past decade of Meetup allowing
one-race only groups? Is it because people don’t care, accept, or are afraid to
speak out against Black-only groups? Is it the problem that only Whites can be
racists and reverse discrimination isn’t a real thing? Or doesn’t matter? I
spent years being concerned that my non-White children would have to suffer
discrimination and racism and I did my best to raise them to appreciate all cultures
(as each has so much to offer) and all colors (as I have always felt the melanin-
based race stuff is garbage). With a Jamaican father, a White mother, German
-born Jewish grandfather, a Cuban-born grandmother and friends from many countries
and cultures like Mexico (their father’s usual soccer team) and The Gambia
(long-term friend…I developed an interest in Africa when I visited there at the
age of 19) and friends of various religions as well, my children grew up liking
people for who they were and accepting them as their friends regardless of
race, culture, religion, or sexual orientation.
Washington DC 1981 |
As my children grew to
adulthood I was relieved to see racism dying down or at least POC (People of
Color) making great strides in business and politics, even to the point where a
biracial man attained the presidency of the United States.
Then, everything changed and went downhill. Without getting
into the politics of it all, we are seeing George Orwell’s “Animal Farm coming
true. Where there used to be oppressors of one race, now we are seeing a rise
in oppressors of another race and we see support from all races that this is
acceptable. “All animals are equal but some are more equal than others” was what
the pigs claimed after they ousted the humans and then became just like them. We can love our country, protect our borders, work for intelligent immigration, love our citizens of all races, religions, cultures and birthplaces as long as they too love America and work for the betterment of our country. We may not all agree as to how it should be accomplished, we may discuss and even argue, but we should not hate one another and exclude one another from our lives and communities.
Mexico 2019 |
It’s 2019 and I fear for the future of my PONEC (Person of
Not Enough Color) grandchild. I fear for all my future grandchildren if my non-White
children “err” and marry White persons instead of POC (People of Color). I
worry about my children and my grandchildren and my friends, Black and White
and Asian and Hispanic, having to choose which group to belong to and who they
dare not associate with. I worry about people hating each other for being Republican
or Democrat or Independent or Trump Supporters or Trump Haters. I fear hate,
tribalism, and separatism are taking over the United States. There is even a new
acronym – ADOS – that is becoming popular. ADOS stands for Americans Descendants
of Slaves. Now two of my three children are not accepted by that group because
their father is from Jamaica (and it must be American slaves); my adopted black
son is the only one in the family entitled to claim to be an ADOS. I am sure ADOS
groups will soon show up on Meetup and then black people from the Caribbean or
Africa or the Dominican Republic or Cuba or their children will have their
membership declined. Maybe then there will be outrage over blacks getting
discriminated against by other blacks.
Meetup is both the disease and the symptom of what is
happening to our country.
Ramping up racism, refusing to associate with people of a
different color, and claiming to need “safe spaces” because even being near a
person of another race is emotionally destructive….this should not be happening
in America
Organizations like Meetup who institutionalize racism and
separatism in our country, this kind of organization should be shut-down if
they do not remove their one-race-only discriminative groups. The same should
apply to the separatism that is growing on college campuses. We are one people,
Americans, and we need to remember that when we start thinking of ourselves as
separate groups, we stop caring for others:
First they came for
the socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the
trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the
Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me –
and there was no one left to speak for me
Martin Niemöller
NEW POST in response to comments on this blog: SAFE SPACES: THE NEW APARTHEID
https://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2019/02/safe-spaces-new-apartheid.html
NEW POST in response to comments on this blog: SAFE SPACES: THE NEW APARTHEID
https://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2019/02/safe-spaces-new-apartheid.html
Criminal Profiler Pat Brown
February 16, 2019
Well done.
ReplyDeleteBully! You showed them by carrying a big stick. It’s unfortunate that not even a slab of concrete would penetrate and convince the knuckleheads.
ReplyDeleteI hear what you are saying I think I understand what you are saying which has a definite nuance to it that can easily be misread unfortunately. I support in theory your effort; why is there so obvious a double standard? I am sorry it is such a struggle.
ReplyDeleteThis was a really good read and I hope that more people take the time and integrity to read through it as this story gains more traction no social media. In my experience when something makes waves in the news and or social media I need to seek the source and shut off my own dialogue while I take a moment to listen to the sources dialogue so that I can weigh the merit of the reporting coming through the news and social media. More often then not I find that people prefer to be ignorant and to stay in their personal stance of ignorance than to take the time to understand or extend understanding.
ReplyDeleteRacism needs to be a thing of the past, in all its forms. We do not want an animal farm.
Totally understand where you are coming from.
ReplyDeleteIgnore the haters.
Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteIf your comment as not posted, it is not because you disagree with me. It is because you are name-calling or being insulting. For those of you who claim I need to educate myself, I attended Howard University, grew up during the Black Power movement of the 60s/70s, have read many, many books and articles on growing up black in America. I raised nonwhite children to adulthood. So, I am not ignorant of racism or the struggles of POC. If you actually read my blog, you would understand that.
ReplyDeleteYou would also understand that I am also concerned how one-race-only groups and newer developing groups like ADOS (Americans Descendents of Slaves) discriminate against mixed-race people and blacks whose parents are African or Caribbean. Declining people based on a photo (in other words, what they look like to you, what race they appear to be) or where their parents are from is despicable. Yet, this is what is happening.
Racism is wrong. Separatism is wrong. It doesn’t matter who is doing the discriminating, it is still wrong. While many believe black Americans have suffered more discrimination that other racial groups in the United States, that doesn’t mean their suffering means they can cause others to suffer until we all catch up on the suffering scale. Abuse is unacceptable, period.
Pat, you seem like a well-intentioned person, but the fact that you feel the need to brandish your “I’ve got family of color and have been to India” cred is actually a sign that that you don’t get it. You’re still coming at this from a position of privilege (and no, getting denied entry into a few groups doesn’t change that). Consider:
ReplyDelete1. I’m a Hispanic yoga student and teacher. Trust me when I say that in the US yoga is a white thing. I was lucky enough to find a studio that had a $75/month membership fee and it was the most diverse studio I’ve ever been to, but even then it was 85-90% white students. Got to a Core Power or one of thes boutique yoga studios where the monthly memberships go up to $200 and it’s 99% white. The 99% white stat holds true for teachers in any type of studio. All of this to say that if you were to go a meet up that was not specifically for POC, it would be pretty much all whites. But I realize that that isn’t your point but I had to lay the foundation, which leads me to:
2. You say that your requests to join these groups were denied based on your picture. Let me ask you: how do you know that those groups weren’t created because their requests to join a general meetup were denied based on theirs? Remember what happened at Airbnb where they found that people of color were disproportionately denied rentals, even when the same person submitted two different pictures, one black and one white? I would actually be interested in a dialogue with the creators of the groups. If it really is, “We just don’t like white people”, then absolutely that’s no better than a “whites only” group because they don’t like blacks. But there very well may be underlying reasons. Yoga spaces are first and foremost safe spaces, and I’ll tell you straight up that if a I as a minority had been denied entry into a general, aka mostly white, group, and I felt this denial was based on my skin color, then I might not feel it safe to include white people in my group, either.
3. That said, if you were really interested in diversity, why not simply start up your own race-neutral meetup and accept anyone and everyone who requests to join? Instead, you took an intentionally divisive action to protest what you feel is divisive, which in my mind really undermines what you’re trying to accomplish.
Look, I’ve been accused of being a coconut all my life. I’m proudly Mexican, but I grew up with a white dad and Mexican mom, most of my friends are white, my fiancée is white. I listen to “white” music, I practice yoga, I’m a massage therapist & a paralegal...there aren’t a lot of my people in what I do. Which is why I find it pretty galling when white people get all shocked when they’re excluded from things. You didn’t personally enslave anyone, deny them an education, or ask Rosa Parks to sit in the back of the bus. I get that. But that ignores that fact that those groups of color were likely created because someone felt excluded by whites. It’s all well and good to say that “things aren’t that way anymore”, but you know what’s? In many parts of this country they still are! To deny it is like denying that the north wasn’t just as racist as the south was, but the northerners were much more subtle about theirs. Ever heard of “unconscious bias”? It’s real. Meetup is just the platform where this is playing out and it doesn’t make them the bad guys. Tone deaf, yes, but so are you. Don’t act all shocked at the blowback you’re getting. You had to have known at least on some level that this is what you’d get. That said, I hope this was a learning experience. Namaste.
Margarita,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your comment is well-thought out and I want to respond to a few of your thoughts.
I wasn’t “brandishing” my family and my time in India. The reason I let people know that I have non-white children and spend time in India (been there five times and do Bollywood dance) is that I have spent most of my life in communities that were not white. So I am not coming from a place where I have never had interaction with People of Coor.
2. I was never making any issue over yoga. I was just picking activities to hang White onto. Walking, photography, travel, yoga, etc. The issue was that the activities could be done by any race and there is no reason to deny people participation in the activity because of the color of their skin.
3. Maybe more white people are interested in yoga than black people at this point in time. I see more black people doing hand dance than whites (I don’t even know if whites know what hand dance is). But, that doesn’t stop a black person from going to a yoga class or opening up a yoga studio or doing yoga with friends. The cost is just what people like to charge and sometimes it is ridiculous. As to yoga, the yoga in the US is nothing like the original yoga in India which was not just a physical activity with a couple of breath exercises, a few minutes meditation and a namaste tagged onto it. It was Hinduism. But, ideas spread and changed and so there is yoga that is physical and yoga that is spiritual and yoga that is agnostic and yoga that is Hindu. People can choose to go to practice whatever they want.
3. Just because someone might have been denied somewhere doesn’t mean it is right to do to other people. Saying one doesn’t feel safe around white people is the same argument some whites use about blacks; they feel unsafe around them. The real problem is labeling a whole group of people as one thing or another. Not all white people are racist; not all black people are criminals; not all cops use excessive force. In fact, most of the time, it is the minority of these groups that have those issues and, therefore, discriminating against a whole group for some bad apples is wrong.
4. I already had three meetup groups for travel, sign language, and walking. My groups were open to everyone and racially mixed. I took action against Meetup and against discrimination and separatism because I have the right to protest what I believe is wrong and work to correct it.
5. I am not at all shocked at the reaction. I knew what I was getting into but I feel someone needs to start standing up against the growing separatism in the United States because it is getting very ugly and it needs to stop.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the world! You are a brave and amazing writer with a really important message to share with your fellow mankind. I have experienced some similar situations in life and appreciate your thoughts on the matter of racism in all its forms. Racism is ugly, cruel and demeaning and should have no place in America! I am sorry to read that you are being called a racist by standing up against racism. Shame on those who refuse to acknowledge the obvious truth and persecute you with words for speaking up. Please know that you are not alone and I pray that you continue sharing your message for a better tomorrow for all Americans. There is only one race “the human race.”
ReplyDeleteNEW POST in response to the comments on this blog:
ReplyDeleteSAFE SPACES: THE NEW APARTHEID
https://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2019/02/safe-spaces-new-apartheid.html
Hello Mrs. Brown,
ReplyDeleteI would like to say first that I have read your entire article twice with an open heart and definitely trying to gain understanding of your viewpoint. I'll begin with a snipet of my background. I'm 33,a HBCU graduate, southern raised Educator currently living in Beijing, China. I'm a descendant of an Irish grandfather/AfroAmerican grandmother & AfroNative grandmother/Afro American grandfather. I was raised in a community whose demographics are 50% EuroAmerican, 40% AfroAmerican and 10% other minorities. In a small town in SC. Just so you also have a foundation of where my facts and opinions come from. I'm not here to negate your experiences but to hopefully help you understand that the world you want to live in (I too would love to live in!) is not even close to being desegragated or not needy of "safe spaces".
1. You stated YOU went to Howard University probably in the 80s (I'm guessing). You were accepted. An educational system created in the 1890s because it was ILLEGAL for Afro people to attend the 1000s of already established universities. However during that same time my AfroAmerican mother(you're around the same age) was DENIED entry to several PWIs, "for unknown reasons" but it definitely wasn't because of grades. She is HIGHLY intelligent but you went to Howard and was able to be accepted by the majority... I'm sure there were some prejudices towards you. However, you were ACCEPTED by this HBCU less than 20 years after desegregation. I'm not sure if you ever heard of the Orangeburg Massacre that occurred on MY alma mater campus but HBCUs are considered "safe spaces" but it definitely wasn't because several students were MURDERED just for being of color. This was in Orangeburg, SC where the demographics are 70% AfroAmerican but they still WERE NOT safe.
2. You stated how relieved you were to see "racism dying down" to the point that a BIRACIAL president was elected. I ask you "dying down" for whom? Just a few years ago a PSYCHOPATH came into a SC church (which should be a "safe space" for ANYONE) and MURDERED 9 people because of the COLOR of their skin. Just so I don't solely make this about "Black/White" discrimination LIKE YOU HAVE. I want you to also remember a TX place of worship "a safe space" was SHOT UP! Las Vegas, Dallas, Orlando and countless others terrorized in their "safe spaces" in RECENT YEARS. Please let's not forget the PEOPLE of ALL backgrounds that have died for no reason thinking they were in a "safe space".
3. I would like to acknowledge your feelings because I'm sure because of your life experiences and your proven track record of NOT being racist i.e. your educational background, biracial children and numerous travels to various lands filled with POC. I acknowledge your hurt. I acknowledge that you live in a predominantly "black" neighborhood and it doesn't feel good to be excluded especially with your history of advocacy for POC.
However, please understand that YOU PERSONALLY WILL NEVER AND I REPEAT NEVER TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE BEING "BLACK/HALF-BLACK OR EVEN PARTIALLY BLACK" IN AMERICA BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT! (not screaming)
P.S I wrote my dissertation on how Affirmative Action is destroying the educational system. Also in your efforts to expose Meetup as the "disease and symptom of what is happening to OUR country". You have in return given people a place to continue to spread hate. If anything the creation of the internet/social media has created a cesspool of hatred that I don't like.
I hope this message has reached you with its intended purpose. Light , Love and Blessings to you and yours!
Hi Southern Girl. I have to disagree with you on the "creation of social media created a cesspool of hatred" and say that I believe that it simply brought it out into the open. It has exposed just how many people really believe they are superior because of their skin color and it has shown how blacks on the whole are nothing close to the stereo types that they have been portrayed as in the media...which along with the awful treatment they receive because of it, has made them defensive and sometimes scinical. Both are important subject matters and both cause heat when discussed. Black people are on the defense and white people are not liking the mirrors being placed in front of them. Now let me say, I do not believe all white people feel this way,but I do think that some are seeing things about themselves that they did not realize existed in them. I have many white friends, love some dearly, but I knew before Facebook that a lot of them where in denial and some genuinely believed that they were not racist. All of it comes from the lies we have been force fed by the media and the lies we tell ourselves, but it is up to each and everyone of us to do our own part in getting to know the truth and treating others like you wish to be treated...out of real Love, not superficial talks of it. Love to everyone.
DeleteSo insightful and profound it hurts, we are hurtling towards a society of ideological segregation.
ReplyDeleteSoon there will be republican and democratic bars and restaurants, black and white only gyms, places reserved solely for lgbt people and no exceptions and ultimately societies within societies and countries within a country.
The writer Gore Vidal once very eloquently said of the Puritans who left England to come to the USA after Cromwell's reign 'To put it baldly, they (the puritans) departed not because they were persecuted for their beliefs but because they were forbidden to persecute others for their beliefs.' It seems that the predisposition for discrimination, exclusion and intolerance is an inherent of human nature and if we, as a society, as a species, allow segregation then it will only lead to mistrust, hatred and violence.
I applaud you fully for this experiment as it's something I've seen and felt for some time now, I hope you have the stomach and the inner steel for any negativity that may come your way and know that you're not alone in this thinking.
Kind regards from the UK.
Southern Girl,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your thoughts and pleasant tone; I wish everyone could communicate their thoughts in a likewise fashion.
To answer, I am not sure where I have given a place for people to spread hate. The Meetup was, first of all, just a temporary point-making group. Secondly, even IF the group were to continue, it was not set up as a hate group and it was supposedly permitted on the Meetup platform as are all-POC groups. The hate was not from people wanting to join the group but from Blacks and Whites who viciously objected to the concept of Whites being able to meet up with people of their own race so they to could have a safe place (away from people who say all Whites are racist at least to some degree, the all have privilege, they all......this....that....believe me, it is also not nice to be accused of not understanding POC and being responsible for their marginalization all the time).
Also, it is not my intent to spread hate but to encourage people to stop separating themselves and tribalising becfore this country becomes a nation of groups who refuse to associate with each other and eventually devolves into segregation again. It is true I cannot know the experience of a POC any more than a POC can understand what it is to be White or a Black person undertand totally what it is to be mixed race and on and on. One thing I do know is that segregation, racism, and hatred toward another race wasn’t good for our country in the past and it isn’t good for our country now. When something is an evil, it is an evil.
Anonymous UK,
ReplyDeleteYou very intelligently laid forth my argument and reason for my experiment and public stance. There is no good ending for segregation in society regardless of the reasoning for the segregation.
And, yes, I am fielding a great deal of angry emails and comments but this was something I expected as I already knew the thinking that would lead to great hostility toward both a real Whites-Only group and an experiment with a faux Whites-Only group. I only hope that along with all this anger, a number of people see my point and it starts a better conversation that leads to better choices in how to get along in society and better choices in how to improve life for all American citizens.
Pat having read the article apologise for earlier comments. You have a lot of good points. Its happening in UK to a lesser extent. I've seen ads for women only which unless it's for victims of rape or domestic violence or old established like the women's institute shouldn't there's a programme on BBC radio 4 called women's hour.
DeleteHi Pat. When I first started reading your post I was feeling you 100%, I get it, it feels like reverse racism. But as I went on I became conflicted. As a black person I could understand the feeling of needing a safe place to be myself and a need for a safe place not run by somebody white. There are so few places in this society, or even this world where blacks are made to feel comfortable in their black skin and not looked down upon just because of it. Even in other cultures blacks have had to prove themselves worthy just to enter into some places of business owned by other races. Have you ever witnessed while standing in line behind one of your black offspring, the person behind the counter looking pass them to ask you what you needed? Have you ever noticed how uptight some of them get when they don't know who was next in line as they look at,the only white person there for the answer...who knows they were the last person to come, but are given the automatic authority to say who should be next?
ReplyDeleteSee Pat, there are no White labels needed, you wear yours and it is automatic entry for you. Yes, it does seem like reverse racism when you put a label on it, but sometimes the "blacks only" label says more than "no whites allowed. It sometimes says. "I feel you, let's get together and talk about it in private", it says "It's safe here for you to join, to enter, to be understood,to know you are valued here, no cops to kill you because you are black, no white judgement, no difference in culture, no worrying if that white person is here to spy... Perhaps it is wrong to not accept one based on color, but to have a legitimate need to feel safe should be respected. To post that it is a black group is to say maybe, be fair warned if you are not and if you are you will be accepted and safe.
White people have a reputation that precedes them, one that puts most people of any color on guard. It has not at anytime felt totally safe by POC to be in their presence. So Pat I think what you are seeing is not reverse racism...it is protection from. When white people stand up in public and say stop that abuse, while it is happening, they then can be trusted, otherwise it seems they are closet anti-racists who cannot be counted on when it matters.
Pat, I understand what you are trying to say but having black kids does not qualify you to omit people's experiences and tell them how they should respond when they feel threatened...in order to make you feel better. People have to go through motions when they are healing, and first up is acknowledging that they are hurt. Blacks have a lot of hurt, hundreds of years of it, and they aren't about to let the enemy tell them how they should heal themselves and certainly aren't going to trust them to be a part of the process. Pat, of all the People in America, you should find some place in your heart to allow Blacks their privacy when they ask. Don't be your usual self, selfishly demanding entry into other People's world's. Pat I think you should consider this a little deeper. By the way, my Great Grandparents were Irish, Grandfather Irish, Grandmother Black. Father's side, Great-grandfather was Scottish decent, Great-grandmother white, Grandfather a Moore and my Grandmother olive complexion mixed (somebody was passing). My Grandmother's own family made her an indentured servant and treated her like one too. So I too have a diverse background, but I am Black (and proud to be), and have personally felt the horrors of racism even within my own family. Pat it is not that Simple.
Unknown,
ReplyDeleteI get what you are saying but to believe that White people never have people look down on them or ignore them is not true. Other Whites might treat them poorly because they perceive them to be of a lower class, blue collar, hippie, redneck, from the north, south, Midwest, east coast, west coast. Just because one is White doesn’t mean they always feel comfortable in the present of another White person or group.
For that matter, many Whites feel uncomfortable in the presence of Blacks because of cultural issues and because, especially nowadays, they think they are being labeled oppressors or racists without any reason to be considered this. Furthermore, some Whites feel that Blacks look down upon them as being lesser beings because some Blacks express that Whites are not as worthy as Blacks. So, it does go both ways.
Sadly, it is getting worse and this is why I did what I did. I have seen everything go downhill in the last decade and it seems where people of different colors were making progress in being friends and marrying and getting along and having fun together, now this is vanishing.
I am sad that, and many other POC, actually feel it is that hard to be in the presence of White people, that you are to be judged, threatened, and killed and that a person of a somewhat different culture is such a burden to deal with. I can tell you, none of my children feel as you do and move freely about without such fears or need to be in “safe spaces.” I raised them to not see the entire world around them as looking down on them and discriminating against them and hating them and wanting to kill them.
The fact that so many have the same views as you, needing a place to hide from White and keep them away, to the incredible extent you describe is, in my opinion, not as indicative of a true societal tidal wave of oppression of Blacks as it is this new wave of victimization where too much is blown out of proportion and too many take everything to personally and seriously. I am not saying one does not run into stuff, but if 24 hours a day one feels America is the same as Apartheid in the early history of South Africa or 70 years ago in American, something is wrong with one’s perception.
Unknown,
ReplyDeleteAnd how does one think they are going to heal in Safe Spaces? If outside that Safe Space the world is a jungle of danger and socializing with the enemy is appallling to you, do you really think our country is going to become a place where people of varying colors will get along better? Do you really think if White are constantly told they are the enemy, that they are racists, that they are oppressors, that they are fragile, that everything is their fault, that no Blacks want to socialize with them and want to keep Whites away, that Whites are going to become change for the better and have more compassion for POC and want to be allies? I can confidently say, this ideation is frighteningly naive; what is going to happen is a race war or a nation of tribalism we may never recover from.
If whites (most) have not changed over all this time, why do you think anyone expects them to change now? Yes, that ideation Is frighteningly naive, but nobody is expecting that, that's on you. If you can't stand for what is right because it is right, then it is a lie and phony, especially if you are waiting and looking for Pats on your back for being a good person. And by the way, America has always been tribal...for the record.
DeleteWow, Unknown,
ReplyDelete“If whites (most) have not changed over all this time, why do think anyone expects them to change now?
I think I see the problem with the way you look at life and our country.
1. If you don’t think whites have changed over the last century, you really do not know history or credit whites with any behavioral change. From slave owners and times of “No blacks” signs to a country where blacks are in every facet of life and hold jobs as CEO’s and the President of the country, where whites are huge fans of black politicians, black actors, black musicians, and black sports stars, to where whites are willing to marry blacks and share a life together, to where parents and grandparents of white people who marry blacks accept the black mate and love their grandchildren....where whites are not upset over sharing their neighborhoods, social circles, and business with blacks.....yes, this is a HUGE change over time and it is sad you see none of this.
2. The fact that you see none of this and feel there is no hope for whites to ever be okay people which is why you have to hide from them and keep them away from you is a very sad commentary on your perception and attitude about our country. My three POC children are perfectly happy living in our country (even though it isn’t perfect) and socialize with both black and white people perfectly fine. They don’t assume everyone they meet with a different skin tone or birthplace or religion or sexual orientation won’t accept them and, hence, they get along well with most everyone. They don’t fear driving while black or walking while black because they are law abiding citizens who know how to interact with law enforcement in a positive and polite way.
Sometimes the world is as good or bad as you see it.
PS. I don’t need pats on my back. I am perfectly okay which is why I don’t need kudos nor will I fall apart because people are nasty towards me for my opinion. I have a great family, wonderful friends, and good workmates. I choose to give everyone a chance and it works out well. My only reason for my actions with the Meetup experiment was to fight discrimination and start a conversation so that people will begin to recognize that the direction being taken by POC and progressive white liberals in this country toward separatism is a dangerous and defeatist plan of action.
If your comment is like the above comments, that nothing has changed in 400 years, that no white person can understand anything a POC goes through, that even if one raises Black children you are still clueless, that white people are inherently racist and will never change, then please read the above comment and understand that this will be my answer to your comment which I will not post because it is more of the same sad angry, paranoid, racist diatribe that is destroying our country.
ReplyDeleteBTW, not ALL Blacks and POC color think so negatively toward Whites and need Safe Spaces to hide from them. Many Blacks and POC agree with me and speak out and are called Uncle Toms or morons and there are many Blacks and POC who don’t speak out because they get the same vicious treatment that has been levied my way for daring to have an opinion that is different from a progressive line of thinking. I can’t blame them for fearing retaliation; it is an unpleasant thing.
I stand by my thoughts and I hope eventually many will stand up with me and stop this racist nonsense and reach out to PONECs (People of Not Enough Color) and stop seeing them as the enemy. If you feel uncomfortable around a friendly White person if you are a POC or you are uncomfortable around a friendly conservative White person if you are a White progressive, maybe you need to see if the problem is you and you inability to be tolerant and fair minded toward someone who is not a carbon copy of you.
Thank you for standing up for sanity and equality! Indeed, I wholeheartedly agree that we’ve fallen into the late-stage Animal Farm scenario you’ve pointed out.
ReplyDeleteThanks again for standing up for what’s right!
I hope this gains traction. Racism is not acceptable, regardless of your skin color.
ReplyDeleteFunny how double standard we are these days so this was an interesting experiment. So sad...maybe this was a small step towards stopping segregation and not allowing racism against white, black, brown or any other person
ReplyDeleteAmazing. I'm so glad to hear her bring this to everyone's attention. As a European American male who served his Country for 30 years, I feel totally excluded. I see black groups all around me that can get together based on race. I see the black caucus that has an enormous amount of power, but has no desire to focus on anyone other than the Black community.I grew up a very, very blue collar. Didn't always fit in with those that had better opportunities than me, and being white, was not always included with activities of blacks. I strongly feel that poor white America is over looked and forgotten. We should be able to assimilate without the prejudices that are constantly affronting us. Talk about sitting with clinched fists, I do as well. We are always targeted as being, racist, ignorant, white trash, etc. The more you try seclude yourselves the more you seclude us. bad things have happened in this country and bad things will continue to do so. But when you alienate us, you force us to seek comfort and protection in our own. Don't be surprised, because this is a vicious cycle. I truly want to celebrate my peoples history and show pride without the racism tag. When I served my country, I served for all Americans. I don't hate any race and despise those that do.
ReplyDeleteGood job, Pat!
ReplyDeleteIt amazes me they can form groups for their purposes but when we do so it is racist. After 400 years they still wrestle with the 'R'. They don't realize the opportunity they have been given. It is easier to complain about it than to expend the energy to make a difference!
"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell, author of "Animal Farm" and also "1984". Ms. Brown you certainly have a chosen a subject that will not see much support from the media. The Washington Post article conveniently left out supporting facts, but I am not surprised. I am also fairly certain that you are not that surprised at the reactions you have elicited with your on-line experiment. Considering the area in which you live, it is a courageous act. I only say that because of the difference between if say you lived in Arkansas versus a satellite of Washington D.C. The politically correct climate of late is toxic and debilitating to our national consciousness; professional (I use the adjective in questionable description of good intentions and skill) media drives a shrill and finger-pointing steam-roller over anyone who appears to be decrying a less than level playing field. I applaud you, ma'am, and sincerely hope that your endeavors fall not on deaf ears. It is time to shed light on how we correct the inequities of our great nation as we move forward, but the solution is NOT enable reverse Jim Crow behavior. I am proud to be a southerner; I was raised always to respect ALL peoples and their cultures, served my community, my state and my nation ensuring these values for almost 50 years, and also served as an extension of this nations foreign policy in most of the world, most recently in Africa (Burundi) for a year. I am well versed in the evil and ill-will that people can inflict on each other and this subtle double standard that you have brought to light is but a symptom of what may come if we do not embrace our differences and chose to move forward in lock-step for the greater good of our nation. Sadly, the definition of "politics" may be the biggest hurdle we have to overcome. Are we, as Caucasians, entitled, always in safe areas, oblivious of race? We have to remember that the social fabric I grew up in the 60's is very much different for people of color now; anyone who says that progress has not been made is ignoring the many people who to this day stand for justice and equality. I understand your motivation in this matter, for your children and grandchildren; I stand with you also to continue the motivation of my own children and grandchildren, to bring us TOGETHER, not grow apart.
ReplyDeleteMichael,
ReplyDeleteYes, Washington DC is an extremely liberal area and I knew how the Washington Post would represent me (as you say, leaving out important statements I made, twisting others (that I was “Offended” by Black Lives Matter when, in actuality, I stated I felt BLM had exacerbated racism in this country by claiming racism where none was evident or that police were guilty of shooting innocent black people down when, in fact, there was evidence supporting a justifiable shooting..not saying there has never been an unjustified shooting just saying that BLM claimed many shootings to be racist and wrongly carried out), and also bringing in only very left commentary to attack my motives and character (imbedded racism and white fragility). But, I feel people need to speak out on this issue and are afraid because, well, it is pretty obvious because I am certainly not being treated kindly by many. One reason I was will to do this is because I can handle the repercussions and I know many people cannot take the chance.
Ms. Brown,
ReplyDeleteAs a criminal profiler you have a much better than average understanding of the circumstances that lead to the loss of life with authoritarian involvement. I say authoritarian to include anyone protecting our nation for the common good. "Rules of Engagement", since Viet Nam, before and beyond still are split-second life-or-death decisions that no one is EVER prepared to make. Anyone can point fingers, play emotional cards that elicit knee-jerk reactions and get their 5 minutes of fame so media can raise their advertising rates. I find that the loudest voices know next to noting about putting their lives on the line for their faith, community, state or nation. Total percentage of veterans versus population is a little over 1%; I'll let that stand for itself. Basic misunderstanding of police work itself is also an issue; Security is proactive, while Police work is reactive. The police are rarely at the scene when something happens, so the time they have to be mentally prepared for any given situation rests on training, intelligence quotient, experience and mental acuity. All are different in all people, This, in NO WAY excuses the oath anyone takes to do their job protecting others with integrity and respect. Which plays to the points of your exercise; assume the best intentions of those involved to bring all aspects of our society together and work for a better nation. You were never afforded those considerations, all because of the word "White" in the name for your group. Biblically, the Lord said that the sins of the fathers would be visited on the heads of the Sons ONLY, if they did not repent of their ways. Our repentance, my generation, has moved forward in many ways but we all have a long way to go.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteNo society can be without security and a law enforcement system. No doubt, throughout the world, it has always been a difficult thing to not have corruption be a part of a police force or excessive use of force to be used on behalf of their officers simply because one is arming a group of people and sending them out in the community. Our country certainly has had issues with this in decades past but has sought to improve the quality and accountability of law enforcement over the years and I think we as a country have improved dramatically towards this goal of properly trained and properly acting police officers. If anyone checks out many other countries, they will see they are far behind us and it has little to do with race and a lot to do with power.
Also, in hiring individuals for police work, the agencies work very hard to weed out racists, psychopaths, and power hungry individuals. Occasionally, they slip through and these bad apples need to be removed and, in some cases, serve time in prison for whatever wrong they have committed while wearing the badge.
The frustrating part about Black Lives Matter is that they focused mostly on cases of justifiable homicide by police officers who drew their weapons when they saw actions on the part of the person they had stopped/approached were life threatening. They built their argument on lies and exaggerations and with a desire to paint all law enforcement officers as racists or Uncle Toms. They wanted to condemn White people as a whole and claim that our country is under horrific racism to the extent where Blacks cannot leave their homes without fearing for their lives. This is inflammatory and racist and dangerous for our country and it has led to where we are today, our country going backwards into hatred and separatism that we haven’t seen since the 40s, 50s, and 60s.
It needs to stop or our country will descend into chaos and apartheid.
Pat - I met you a couple of years ago on our trip to Cuba so meticulously organized by your good self. I found you to be far from a racist - in fact the opposite was true. I wish we would just look at each other as "people" -- all created by the one God. I don't understand why we always have to make the distinction of black versus white. I like Meetup but, like you, have had the frustration of not being allowed to join because I was the wrong color. We just need to let this go and at the rate we're going it'll never happen. How many civilizations have been persecuted for their religious beliefs or other reasons. Time to put this behind us and move on.
ReplyDeleteThank you for taking the initiate in posting this.
Anon, glad you enjoyed the Cuba trip! Can you imagine if I had made it a White Women Cuba Meetup trip? Hah! Yeah, if I remember correctly, we had a nice mix of races and all was just dandy. Yes, this separatism needs to be brought to a halt or our country will not recover from it.
ReplyDelete