Maddie McCann Australian Podcast IMPORTANT Followup: TWO KEY POINTS
Mark Saunokonoko’s excellent ten part podcast series on the Madeleine McCann case has come to an end. I very much appreciate being included in the work as it is a rare bit of true reporting on the case amongst the myriad of McCann supported, McCann generated propaganda that has been ongoing for a decade, misleading the public as to the facts of the case.
However, I do want to add TWO POINTS which were not included in the podcast which I believe are of utmost importance to the case, probably my two MOST IMPORTANT conclusions which go to the heart of what happened to Maddie: WHO was Smithman and WHERE is Maddie’s body?
I said in the podcast that I believed Smithman was the key to the case. But, what was left out was the very reason WHY I believe Smithman is the key to the case. It is NOT because I believe the man was the likely abductor of Maddie (as was libelously reported by The Sun) nor because I believe that the man was likely Gerry McCann carrying off the body of his deceased child (although the evidence tends to support this). The major reason I believe Smithman is the key to the case is because the McCanns showed very little interest in this sighting, downplayed the sighting, or tried to link the sighting with Tannerman, an attempt to make two men into one man.
The FACT - and it is a fact - that the McCanns did not want to focus on Smithman as an abductor is a massive red flag. ANY parent of a missing child would move heaven and earth to have such a sighting followed up on by both the police and the public. This was not some vague sighting of a girl matching Maddie’s description in some far off country; this is the sighting of a man carrying a little girl from the direction of the McCann vacation flat at exactly the time the child went missing. Yet, the McCanns shrug their shoulders and show no interest. In fact, when they are confronted, they will only acknowledge the sighting as possibly Maddie IF and only IF that man is also Tannerman thereby giving Gerry an alibi at the time the “original” sighting, Tanner’s sighting, of the man occurred.
The only logical conclusion that one can make that the McCanns did not care to focus on the Smith sighting as the true sighting and separate from Tannerman sighting of someone carrying off their child is because THAT MAN WAS GERRY.
The second important point left out of the podcast was WHERE is Maddie’s body? The podcast covered Location 1 and Location 2 (an initial temporary hiding place, perhaps, under an overturned boat, and a second temporary hiding place in a crevice on the Rocha Negra accessible from the beach).
Read my blog on these hiding locations here: On Moving and Hiding Bodies
The third and MOST important location would be Location 3.
From my previous blog on Find the Body and Prove We Killed Her, this is the most important point; the location where I believe is the best possiblity to find the body of Madeliene McCann.
Before coming to Portugal, I entertained a number of possibilities: the Huelva baths in Spain where the McCanns went just as the cadaver dogs were arriving, removal back to the UK, and incineration. Each had its interesting possibilities but each also seemed a bit too difficult to accomplish (although by no means am I saying such actions would have been impossible) and it is a pretty good rule of thumb that people do what is easier to manage and simpler to pull off. Because of this, I came to two more probable conclusions, both involving Gerry driving the body to a location he felt was secluded and unlikely to be discovered. I was particularly interested in the activities of the McCann in the days before the Huelva trip when Gerry's phone pinged repeatedly in an area to the west of Praia da Luz along the road to Budens, (estre EN125). I also found it interesting that the day he was to leave for Huelva, he was not feeling well, having a bit of an upset stomach. This led me to theorize he could have used that day to move the body or to recover from moving it the day before. I decided when I got to Praia da Luz, I would take a trip down that road to the west and see whether there were any suitable places to lose a body forever.
Gerry seems to be quite practical and rather cold and calculating and he simply may have decided, Kate’s feelings be damned, that making sure the body was never found was of paramount importance and they would have to live with it.
Monte do Jose Mestre. This huge, desolate area covers many square metres and is filled with a considerable network of dirt roads. Looking down on the area from atop the highest hill is a row of windmills. Small trees and bushes are scattered throughout and the dirt is not impossible to dig in. Gerry had just returned from England and I wouldn’t be surprised, if he is involved in disposing of Maddie’s body, that he brought a small shovel back with him, one that could be tossed into the bushes when he finished digging the grave or thrown away in a dumpster on the way back to Praia da Luz. If the body is buried out there, it would be unlikely to ever be found unless a large contingent of searchers and dogs descended upon the area and then it would still be pretty lucky if they located a grave. I hope, however, this is done sometime in the future. I would like to know if Maddie is there or not.
Views of Monte do Jose Mestre below.
Along with retesting the DNA, searching this location is the other most useful exercise in trying to find out what happed to Maddie. True, it would require a lot of searching at that location, perhaps with dogs and metal detectors, but I can think of no better place at this point to search for the body of Madeleine McCann.
So, to recap, the McCanns burying of the Smith sighting is the strongest proof we have that Smithman is the key to the case and likely Gerry McCann carrying off the body of his dead daughter and the possible burying of the child at Monte do Jose Mestre the other most important key to solving the case outside of DNA or a confession.
Criminal Profiler Pat Brown
May 9, 2019
By Pat Brown
Rating: 
Published: July 27, 2011
What really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007? Was she abducted as the Gerry and Kate have claimed or did something happen to Madeleine on May 3 in the vacation apartment and the incident covered up? Criminal Profiler Pat Brown analyzes the evidence and takes the readers through the steps of profiling, developing a theory that is intriguing and controversial
SSo, to recap, the McCanns burying of the Smith sighting is the strongest proof we have the Smithman is the key to the case and likely Gerry McCann carrying off the body of his dead daughter and the possible buying of the child at Monte do Jose Mestre the other most important key to solving the case outside of DNA or a confession.
84 comments:
I'd still like to know what happened to the refrigerator removed from the McCann's apartment and where the replacement was obtained.
Developping your first point would have contradicted MS' constant warning that they weren't suggesting that the MCs were involved in the MMC's disappearance. This point and some other presumptions at least let it clear that the child was by no way abducted.
Even if Madeleine's body was never in the hire car that would not exonerate the McCanns. Surely the car could have just become contaminated with cadaver odour from the apartment and Madeleine's body could have been disposed of on the 3rd May. Maybe Gerry put her body in a rubbish bin after being seen by the Smith family. The bins are emptied every day at dawn in Praia da Luz and I don't believe they were all properly searched as that first night every one was looking for a child who had just wandered out of the apartment. Once a body is in landfill it's unlikely to be found.
Is there a way you could crowd fund a search of that scale? Public feeling is only going one way and people would like to feel that they can help in a way that is actually meaningful rather than paying into a fund to pay the McCanns Mortgage!
I doubt that the truth of this case will be told in our lifetimes. Unfortunately it's looking more and more likely that someone else other than those responsible will be framed in a manner which will satisfy the needs of those in power.
Only one person lifted a bin's lid on May 3/4 night. As domestic residues were compacted in a transfer station before being deposited on the landfill, search there after a couple of days would have been very difficult.
Or gather volunteers and travel all to the Algarve and search these locations
Is this an area people use? Is it an area dogs get walked? If there was a body there, which I doubt, I would imagine a dog would have found Madeleine's remains by now.
Anon 11:16...did you read the blog and look at the photos? The area is DESOLATE, there are no houses, and no one goes up there. When I was there, it was very deserted and wasn’t a very pleasing place to wander about. So there would be very, very few people or dogs wandering about up there.
Ruth, possible, except for the odd fact that there seemed to be such an unpleasant smell that the McCanns let the car air out for a really long time. Cadaver is something that is a smell that is so objectionable, it is hard to handle smelling. On the other hand, some garbage or a dirty diaper rarely require more than 30 minutes to allow the air to be tolerable to inhale.
But is there any proof of this Pat?
I know from living in hotter climes that we used to air the car before the children could get inside the cab. In the heat cars can become like ovens. Might it not be a case of them opening the boot door to let the heat escape?
I will take a visit and get back to you.
Yes I did read your blog and I looked at the photos.
Would there be any remains left? I don't think so. I am very much living in hope of her being found and alive.
I don't think that ever existed but has become one of those internet stories. Portugal have the same rules as UK in as much as they do not allow refrigerators to be dumped because of the CFCs. They have to be taken care of by specialists and anyway nobody would do that. The agent for the villa would be the one to arrange and new fridge and removal of the old.
Are you suggesting a 4yr old was scrunched up inside a fridge? No chance!
yes Ruth you are right. Madeleine's body was not in the car but all of her belongings were, so you have raised a very legit point.
My question would be "why did the PJ impound the hire car, have it checked out and tested, decided there was something more than fishy in the back and then give the McCanns the car back"?
Does this make any sense at all as surely the car would have remained impounded as vital evidence?
It really does seem improbable Pat because the land is so dry there. It would have to be a mound on top of the ground and I think Gerry would not run the risk of being seen from the road and the little small holdings dotted about that area. I recall searches out that way in the early days.
Decaying beef or fish stinks also very strongly. The lady supposed to be judge but anonymous never made any statement, why ? The dates aren't even recorded.
@Anna Guedes
Yes rotting meat does have a most unpleasant odour about it. I remember looking in on a friends house for them once, some years ago now. I walked in through the front door and was knocked back by the sickening smell.
I checked the fridge but no sign of anything rotting in there but the smell was stronger in the kitchen so I looked inside of the oven and my friend had left some of the Sunday roast beef in a tray and it was covered in maggots!
I have also smelt the odour of a dead human being. Distinctive and not to be forgotten in a hurry. How to get the smell out of the nose is really quite a problem and I resorted to Vick sinus inhalers for both!
It is for this reason I do not see that there was any odour inside of 5a which could lead the dogs to alert. Bear in mind there were other occupants in the apartment after the McCann family vacated it. How would they have been able to stay in a place with such a sickly odour?
Likewise if there had been such a smell in the car nobody would have travelled in it and the police would have detected it. They didn't and gave the car back to the family for their continued use.
Personally, I do not favor the theory of Maddie’s body being stored in a freezer. This is where I differ from Goncalo. I feel it is unlikely under the circumstances that the McCanns would chose to have her body within close proximity as they idea of removing her body is to remove suspicion of their involvement and make it seem like an abduction. People usually store bodies in refrigerators when the police aren’t investigating them or whomever as an abduction from that location. In other words, no one WILL come looking for a body in that location.
So, I feel IF the McCanns are involved, Smithman would be Gerry removing the body from the premises, from the resort complex to a location unconnected with them where a predator, in theory, could have dumped the body or buried it. In the short term, time is of the essence and simply gettin the body away from the premises is the point. Later, when the concern is that it will be found and examined, the body would then be moved to a further location where it is assumed no one will ever find the body and prove they killed her.
As to Monte de Jose, yes, it is dry and rather hard, but I tested the area and a small body could indeed be buried there.
As to the car, sure, in theory, there could be other reasons for leaving it open to air or for the dogs hitting on the car which is why these issue are not my keys to the case. Smithman remains the biggest because the McCanns ignore the sighting and the dogs hitting on the vacation flat behind the sofa (where a body falls and is not hidden) and the lack evidence of abduction. So, we have an accident ending up in death, a body removed without stranger evidence attached, Smithman heading toward the beach, and the body gone missing. If the body is still not in the crevice on the beach, then it may have been moved in the car to another location like Monte de Jose Mestre which I choose for isolation, ease of access, proximity to Praia da Luz, and the pings from Gerry’s cell phone at the time.
Still all a THEORY and this is why the case cannot go to court without DNA, a body, or a confession.
I don't think Kate & Gerry did refuse to acknowledge the Smithman sighting, in fact they were most concerned by it. Gerry was in the apartment at around 10pm when the Smiths say they saw their man and when I read their statements they could not have identified the man by his facial features so this is all hanging on Martin Smith and what he felt on seeing Gerry at the airport alighting the steps with Sean and to be perfectly honest Pat, there was nothing unusual in the way he held Sean as he came down those steps.
If witnesses are to be believed then Gerry rushed with the other 6 parents back to 5a leaving Diane Webster on her own and a staff member spoke to her asking where they had all gone & he said Gerry was noticeable because he was such a fun loving and gregarious man. The same barman saw Gerry then running frantically around the poolside and heard Kate crying out for Madeleine. I don't see what it will take for people to stop making Smithman into Gerry? He couldn't be in 2 places at once!
For my money the abduction theory is very simple and the more readily acceptable theory. Someone wanted a child and Madeleine was that child but it might have been another if the location hadn't have been easier for access.
Sadly the McCanns didn't know that there was a message scrawled across the booking forms to say they wanted to dine there every evening so they could check the children. Kate discovered that when she and Gerry were given access to the PJ files and by that I don't mean those we have access to.
People on forums say Gerry told every Tom, Dick & harry they were leaving the children, but that is untrue. He did impart this to Jez but I am sure Jez didn't take Madeleine nor tell anybody else what was happening with the group and their checking system.
Pings from phones to masts can occur over quite an area so Gerry didn't need to be in that exact location. I think he may well have driven about, as any father would, looking for any signs of his child or ideas as to where they might search. Natural enough.
My money is on a local network taking Madeleine and that Jane Tanner did see Madeleine being taken away, a sight which haunts her to this day.
Anon at 3:11 Thank you for a polite disagreement with my commentary. Many people say I refuse to post such comments but I only do so because they are rude and insulting.
As to your thoughts:
I do believe Kate and Gerry did show lack of interest in Smithman except for the threat of the man being identified as Gerry. I agree with you that how Gerry carried his child off the plane is probably meaningless and that the Smiths found it matching Smithman not very valuable. However, as I have stated before, EVEN if Smithman was a drop dead lookalike to Gerry, the McCanns should have been crazed about following up the most likely suspect in what they call an abduction of their child because THAT man, even if he was a Gerry clone, would HAVE their daughter! And no parent of a missing child would not go nuts and want everyone to be focusing on that man. But, the McCanns downplayed the Smith sighting and that is something a profiler cannot ignore.
As to the abduction theory, well, there simply is no evidence of it occurring other than Madeleine being missing. And, as I have stated before, the possibility of someone entering the flat and leaving zero evidence of a break-in or even being in the flat is pretty remote.
And, there is a myriad of other strange behaviors and evidence (like the dogs) that cannot be dismissed.
One last thing, no pedophile ring would have taken Madeleine as it is a foolish thing to do; only a local child predator would have done that.
Oh, and Jane Tanner simply lied. I am sorry, but her statement is not truthful. She did not see anyone carrying off Madeleine. She could not have been on the street at the same time as Gerry and Jez and neither have seen her or the abductor. I have been on that street at night and it is simply impossible.
Hi Pat, amazing work as always, the most comprehensive material about the subject out there. What are the chances of Maddie still being in some crevice in Rocha Negra? (probably in the lower part, accessible by beach, that you mention) How well was that site searched by the police? It looks like a pretty difficult terrain. I wonder if she could still be there. Can't shake off the feeling that Kate wanted the Portuguese police to go there and find her body on that reported "nightmare" call. Maybe if you are still in Portugal you can check the site yourself. But please be very careful it's pretty dangerous there, I did read on the internet a teenager fell from that cliff and died in 2018. Thank you for your work Pat. Let's hope she will be found eventually.
Pat I apologise but I am coming in again with a reply before I take a trip up the stairs to my bed. You'll be pleased to hear I am headed in that direction I expect?
I am glad you agree about Martin Smith seemingly having a lightbulb moment over Gerry alighting from the aircraft as being a nonsense, because it is. Are you saying that the witness statements of Gerry being seen around the pool searching for Madeleine at slightly after 10pm doesn't destroy the whole concept that he could be Smithman? Why would multiples of people lie about this?
This is what Kate has written in the rear of her book "Madeleine" under "KEY SIGHTINGS":
SIGHTINGS ONE AND TWO
Witness One: Jane Tanner
Witness Two: Holidaymaker from Ireland
These two CRUCIAL sightings of a man carrying a child in the street, made around the time of Madeleine's abduction on the night of 3 May 2007, have been discussed in detail in this book.
The description of the man seen by Jane Tanner was eventually made public three weeks after Madeleine's disappearance and as an artist's impression commissioned by our own investigative team was released in October 2007. Yet to this day no man has come forward to identify himself as the father, relative or family friend of the child in either case.
Although the police appear to have considered these sightings to be unrelated on the basis of the forty-five minute gap between them, the SIMILARITIES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES (my caps).
There followed a detailed and categorised "chart" for want of a better word at this time of the evening!
In this Kate has listed, side by side, the date and time of each of the sightings.: 3 May 2007 ; 9.15pm under Witness 1....3 May 2007; 10pm under Witness 2
Location comes next: Rue Dr. Agostinho da Silva, PdL for Witness 1.....Rua da Escola Primaria, PdL under Witness 2
Age of man: 35-40 Witness 1.....34-35 Witness 2
Height of man: About 5ft 10"/1.78 m (recorded incorrectly in the statement as 1.7m) Witness 1.....1.75-1.8m (5ft 9" - 5ft 10") Witness 2
Hair: Thick, dark, slightly longer at the back of neck Witness 1.....Short, brown Witness 2
Clothing: Beige or gold trousers wide & straight, chino style, dark jacket Witness 1.....Cream or beige trousers, classic cut Witness 2
Other: Carrying child across arms at front of chest; child's head to the left of man's chest Witness 1.....Carrying child over arms with child's head towards left shoulder Witness 2
Other: Walking hurriedly Witness 1......Did not carry child in a comfortable way Witness 2
Other: Not felt to be a tourist because of clothing worn Witness 1.....Not felt to be a tourist because of the clothing worn Witness 2
Age of child: Young child, not a baby; assumed to be female because if clothing Witness 1...….Approximately four years; female; medium blonde hair; pale skin, typically British Witness 2
Clothing of child: Pale pink and/or white pyjamas with floral pattern Witness 1 ……Light coloured pyjamas Witness 2
Other: Barefoot Witness 1.....Unsure (family members say child was barefoot) Witness 2
Other: No blanket or covering Witness 1.....No blanket or covering Witness 2
Pat, please, in all fairness, how was that playing the sightings down?
Kate then goes on to say it was 15 months later, in August 2008 when they were allowed to read the police files that it was revealed just how many witnesses saw people acting strangely in the days before Madeleine disappeared and Kate goes on to Witness 3, 4, 5 & 6 and their accounts.
1/2
You only have to listen to Jane Tanner and see how choked she is in the Panorama reconstruction as she realises how she had probably seen Madeleine being carried away but at that moment did not realise this! Jane has to live with this feeling of guilt that she could have prevented it but had no inkling of what she was witnessing.
I know the street is narrow and some cannot believe that she passed by the 2 men and was not noticed but I don't find that at all strange. People miss people in the street very often from my experience and I lived in a small market town up until a few years ago, where people knew so many, but still sometimes they were unaware of passing a friend or acquaintance.
You have to remember also that Jane was very close to the top of the street so that when the man passed from left to right in front of her, she could see him but the amber hue of the light was inclined to make it difficult to say exactly what the colours were but in her first statement she tries her best to give a description and sees the bottoms of the pyjamas and the bare feet of the child. Don't forget there was one street light at the point she saw the man passing by.
I just hope and pray for fairness and yet what I have witnessed over the 11 years of following this case is something I never wish to witness again. It shows the suspicious minds of people who really haven't a clue what took place that night but I am positive whatever it was, a local gang are involved in this and they have taken Madeleine and probably sold her on, maybe for drug money or something like that. I don't quite understand why you think a paedophile or trafficking ring could not be involved?
Let's hope and pray she didn't come to any physical harm although the mental scars will take many years to heal.
Sorry it is long winded and I am going to leave it here and get some sleep.
Thank you for allowing me to give my views as one sided views never did get anybody anywhere.
2/2
Thank god for people like you Pat ! I'm a mere member of the public who resides in the same county as the McCanns here in the UK and have recently joined the Justice for Madeline Group. I'm enthralled by it all and have listened to, read and watched hours of coverage. I've had my opinion since first hearing of this back on 2007 and nothing has changed my opinion. I agree with everything you say up to and including the fact that Jane Tanner is a liar.....she's nothing more than a nosy neighbour who was checking on Gerry not her sick child........her distaste for him is apparent and that's the only thing she and I have in common ! All you experts are doing a fantastic job and I know you'll continue.......Thank you X
@Anonymous 2:12
"How to get the smell out of the nose is really quite a problem". The VOCs are transferred on your skin, your clothes (a phenomenon called adsorption), the opposite phenomenon (desorption) occurs under a flux of warm air. This is when you smell the scent again, though you're far from the source. But after some time, it's gone, the scent is just registered in your memory and will always be there.
We have about 5 millions cell sensores that allow us to perceive millions of combinations of chemical compounds, dogs have 200 millions.. It means that when you think you got finally rid of a cadaver scent, the dog still "has" it in his nose, his many sensores catch the scent. For how long ? It depends on many factors, the first being outside v. inside.
@ Anonymous 12:14
It seems there was no death COVs in the car properly speaking. Eddie got the scent of blood and (?) cadaver contamination sniffing the air coming from the compartment of the driver door where the key card was. He didn't alert at any other door. Keela was put in the boot, she has to be very close (unlike Eddie) because she detects very tiny droplets of human blood that have dried on spot.
Though I'm no profiler I agree with you, Pat, about the Smithman issue being a key. However MS alluded to an interesting detail about Smithman, he was not carrying the child comfortably (as if no resistance was opposed to gravity). Apart from that and according to some independent and early statements the alarm was launched around 9:50/55 while according to UK analysts (see the PJFiles)"in the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later."
Hi pat, smith man is the only realistic logical best uninvestigated loose end left in limbo? Further more it is seperate from tanner man, who is innocent and not a criminal,unlike smith man? The time line,kate discoverd her daughter had gone, and when smith man was seen cannot be dissmissed that easily? Many strange things untouched could reveal more, they killed this case from the outset to ignore the evidence,too corrupted,you are right pat,it ended as it begun.
Anon 6:53
I can see you REALLY want to believe Jane Tanner and I understand you feel she is being truthful. However, as I said about the street, it isn’t possible for Gerry and Jez to have missed Jane on the street. The street was deserted but for them and Jane had to literally brush by them to get to the top of the road. They would have seen her coming or going past or being past them and they would likely have heard her as well. As they were talking to each other, they were facing two directions, yet they never saw her or the man supposedly carrying off a child. This is impossible on that particular street at that time of night. It would be like saying two people were talking to each other in the hallway of an apartment building and someone squeezed by them unnoticed and although each was facing one end of the hall no one saw that person or another person crossing the hall.
Secondly, it is particularly odd that Jane, having seen a man carrying off a little girl at from the the flat at the approximate time Maddie disappeared, would not immediately inform the McCanns. It is my opinion the story was concocted when Gerry needed an alibi for the time of the supposed abduction.
I admire your patience and steadfast approach to your answers here Pat..... Makes me question just who Anon is....
I listened to the podcast yesturday and thought to myself that there is a third option. The dogs were barking at the closet as if there was something in it, near the bushes, and then they reacted to the trunk of the car. I think the easiest way to explain it is by assuming there was a bag. Because we are talking about tourists, the simplest and unnoticed way bag can be stored for a day or two (before the smell alerts anyone) is in these publicly accessible luggage cabinets, where you pay for storage time. And then they could move bag to a place they considered safer. Probably I'm wrong, I do not even know if such cabinets were in that city, but I wanted to share.
@AnnGuedes 9.16pm
Hi Anne, I must confess I didn't fully understand what you were alluding to when you said that in the PJ Files it mentions that one of the men or Fiona Payne may have escaped to help in the searches.
I have read the files over so many times and yet still miss some pieces, obviously, so would you point me to the right file to read please?
On Martin Smith mentioning that the man wasn't carrying the child in a comfortable way when he passed them by, this is what alerted him to Gerry or his way of carrying Sean down as they alighted the aircraft on their return from Portugal. The saddest moment ever as they did so without their first born and the pain was obvious in their eyes and the way in which Kate gently kissed Amelie's head whilst gulping back the tears which must have been flowing from her at that moment. You can see it on the video of their arrival as Gerry made a short press comment.
Was the way Gerry held Sean abnormal? If that is the case then there are an awful lot of abnormal people around and I daresay more on that flight. You know I am being facetious and the fact is it was a perfectly normal way of holding or carrying a child of that age whether awake or asleep.
On the dogs reaction to the hire car, I don't think it sat well with many people watching the way those checks were performed. The handler stated he didn't know which car was the McCanns and yet it had 2 banners emblazoned across its windscreens asking for help to find Madeleine. No other of the 10 cars had them.
I have watched over and over again as the dogs sniff around the vehicles and interested in the wheels more than anything else (roadkill perhaps) and then at the point the handler moves towards the McCann's car the dog is uninterested to the point it runs way past the car and is sniffing the air. We know how unpleasant multi storey car parks can smell so that is not surprising. They smell like toilets! Dogs, no matter how well or specifically they are trained, ultimately they are dogs and their interest in piqued by the same things every dog finds interesting.
Then we hear the dog called back to the car and the handler ensuring that the dog sniffs that side of the car. It does the same as before and sniffs around the wheel hub in a very interested way as it had done to the other cars (roadkill?). The handler then taps along the car before the dog decides there is something of interest along the ledge of the driver's door! What on earth could that have been?
Then a dog is put into the back of the vehicle and sniffs about like it did in the wardrobe and nothing until it reacts to something on the righthand side. It sniffs and sniffs this piece and then licks it! That would suggest to me it had found not blood but something it felt was good to eat! Isn't it possible this was from the leaky meat tray?
My thoughts also are that had it been the residual smell from a corpse, there would have been an immediate reaction as the dogs passed by the car and they would not have needed to be cued to look and perhaps the dogs wanted to please their master so reacted. This has to be a possibility as we know from researching handler bias. Remember too the claims of the handler regarding how good his dogs were and how they could detect cadaver odour buried deep. Why then didn't they react more quickly and more positively without the need to be guided?
This question is open to Pat to answer as well as anybody else. It has worried me and many others in quite a long time.
Thank you for the chance to discuss these matters with you all.
Anonymous.....
I am curious why you post all the PJ files and yet dont actually read them. People have torn up those files and all the professionals have concluded there was no abduction. Why do you want there to have been one? Evidence. Now the new DNA offer that has been snubbed will provide perfect evidence - are you against that as well? And someone as well versed in the case as you are should be screaming for the DNA to be done, right???
@Anna @8.37pm
I realise the VOCs would be responsible for the microscopic deposits within the nose and that is why it is difficult to remove the horrendous and sickening smell of a corpse.
On Keela and her responding to tiny amounts of blood, you are very right but we have to also take on board that prior to the McCanns moving into 5a on that fateful week, there were 2 families staying in 5a who reported that they deposited blood in the department. One was Paul Gordon and I cannot recall the other family right now but they were the ones before the Gordon's so within a few weeks of the McCanns stay. The dog would not differentiate between blood of one person or another and as nothing of any value was gained from the tests by the FSS then we have to assume there was nothing of Madeleine present.
On removing the floor tiles it was also recorded that the officer (Lino Henrique) tasked with lifting them had deposited his blood on that tile. It is stated in the online version of the PJ Files.
In the hire car a microscopic race of Gerry McCann's blood was found on the car's ignition card.
The stories that arise regarding the blood found is astonishing. The one about the blood spatter up the walls is one such myth and yet it is still being discussed as a fact!
But if that was the case to let the heat out. The mccanns would have gave this reason but they did not they said it was meat or dirty diapers
The most remarkable and always neglected point about Jane T is that in her first version of the sighting (to the GNR and PJ on May 3/4 night) 1) she wasn't going up rua FGM, but in the corridor on the north façade of the building, 2) Tannerman was walking on rua AdS and furthermore 3) there was no passing by GMC and JW. You can check this easily consulting the PJFiles.
All over the world the car is given back now, after forensics are done.
It is private property. The days of keeping vehicles is long gone. Same for property, even in bloody crime scenes the forensics team goes in then property is scrubbed and cleaned and given to rightful owner.
Crimes happen in hotels all the time and room is back in business within weeks
It’s agricultural land, I even got out of the car to check myself. I found an old farm house, and there are many by the way with tools, iron rods, there are also hundreds of houses that are empty with for sale signs. It has been said by even experts that the choices for hiding a body are endless with such vast areas
Anon 3:53
Not sure where you got out. But when we went up the road, there was NOTHING up there but deserted land, not one house in site. The photos are accurate. Therefore, if Gerry tried that road to see if it was a good location to hide a body, he would have found it as we did. Empty land, no one around, great location.
Di, not sure who Anon is but as long as Anon is polite and presents arguments as opposed to insults, I am okay with that. So often people who disagree are vicious and spend their time trashing me or my expertise. Of course, sometimes, people start off really nice as a way to rope one in and then get nasty. But, I keep an open mind until and unless that happens.
If I may comment on your query re the dogs....Eddie (cadaver) and Keela (blood)...... please research these highly trained and intelligent dogs. Trust me it's incredible. You will learn that they are highly trained in their specific field just the same as a guide dog is to lead the blind, a hearing dog, a dog that detects drugs, explosives and so on. To make the point I'm getting to you surely accept Guide dogs do what they should ? If you don't then please disregard this post.
Eddie will detect death, and only death......would sniff food but wouldn't eat it as his mission is to search for signs of death. When he finds it he barks. He will not bark at any other time. Same for Keela.....she is trained to detect blood and ONLY Blood.......if saliva, semen, or any other bodily fluid is around she will not alert to it.....if she finds blood she will freeze and point. The information is there for you to read and it's amazing.
Regarding being guided by the handler it is all part of the training technique......it's not a scam and it's not that the dogs are being coerced. In the case of the boot of the McCanns hire vehicle it was relevant due to the possibility of a bag being placed in the boot therefore she was 'asked' to check. No different to a human being instructed to go check the boot !
If you're still not sure and believe the dogs are not credible ask yourself this.......if you were somewhere and explosive dogs detected a bomb.....would you stick around or would you consider they might be wrong and enter anyway ? Personally I would trust the instinct of an animal over a person any day...........please accept that this is in no way designed to appear condescending to you..........it's just that these dogs are extremely clever and in my opinion worth their weight in gold.
If you have read this to here then I would like to thank you......
I hope, even in a small way that you might change your view on these not so dumb animals. X
Thank you Pat for your research, expertise and your professionalism. I have enjoyed reading your blog. Anonymous’s input is interesting. It’s almost mapping out where Madeline could be found. Food for thought. Thanks again Pat
Pat, I suspect strongly the reason they do this is because you are in fact superior to them therefore you're a threat. If they choose to be in the other camp that's fine..... They confirm their lack of intelligence on that score alone. Them resorting to abuse would actually give me immense pleasure in the knowledge that I'd outsmarted them You do amazing work and are not afraid to say it how it is.
I raised this blog in our group Justice for Madeleine and it created alot of interest ...... Thank you for working so hard on this. We Brits are ashamed that we don't have people like yourself and Mark fighting for this British little Angel .... Huge admiration for you ....... PS.....lots of suggestions who Anon might be in our group .... đ
@ Miss Flowerbomb
I am sorry to have to correct you but the McCanns made no such excuse. They haven't responded to Goncalo Amaral's story of the lady juror as far as I'm aware.
If I am wrong, maybe you'd be good enough to furnish us with that particular quote & its source?
@ anon @ 3.48
Are you sure cars are given back like that? If the vehicle was found to be contaminated with anything that might have substantiated the PJs purported ideas (up to Amaral's dismissal) that a child's body had been transported in said vehicle I really doubt the PJ would return it to the family. It was their evidence. They couldn't allow that to disappear!
Ownership was with the hire car company not the McCann couple.
Anonymous 8:57 AM
Neither you nor me are handlers, so the best we can do is trust authorities like Mark Harrison, the top British expert in the matter of missing persons. He advised to call for the team Martin Grime formed with his two dogs as being the best in the UK. MH attended all the dogs operations. Why should one suspect them ? And what would they have to gain while cheating the Portuguese ? Imagine MMC popped up days after Eddie smelt cadaver in 5A, the career of that precious dog would have stopped immediately.
The only critic you can do that would be legitimate is "ok, this dog Eddie smelt death, but whose dead body ?" As all dead people smell the same.
Anonymous 12:34 PM
There's an important detail you neglect and I'm afraid this is where the devil is. Eddie alerted first in a corner of the parents'bedroom. It took him 4'to find the centre of the scent cone. 27'later Keela was brought on that same spot of the bedroom where Eddie had alerted. She found no blood. Hence what Eddie alerted to wasn't blood, it was residual cadaver scent.
Sorry totally of topic Pat but can you tell me how many bucket and spades were in the photo outside the Mccanns door I have been asking this question for a while no one seems to be able to give a answer Thank you
May I begin today by wishing Madeleine McCann a Happy 16 Birthday wherever she may be residing this day. I'm not prepared to give up on the young lady and know many are of the same belief that she could still be alive. We have to give her that chance of being found. Good luck to Operation Grange on that score.
Firstly I respond to Di B as she agitates on facebook suggesting I am Gerry McCann. Let's put that to bed for a start. I'm not but I am a concerned member of the public & that is sufficient.
On the dogs, I would never diss them & know what a valuable tool they are, in all disciplines. I have known dog handlers & have researched specifics & they all must be commended from the guide dogs for the blind to the IED dogs & cadaver dogs, the latter being a relatively new concept in UK in 2007. It was ACPO the dogs & handlers worked under in UK but as Grime was requested by the NPIA officer Mark Harrison and in view of Grime just about to depart ACPO and do his own thing, Grime wasn't working under anybody as such. Mark Harrison had a vested interest as he had trained Keela with Grime & possibly was in contact with him still & possibly knew the position Grime was in. ACPO certainly frowned on Grime taking his dogs to Luz. One dog was already unlicenced to work I believe & feel that might have been Eddie, although I am not positive on which dog at this minute.
A lot didn't sit right with the whole dog episode & that is how I will feel forever having witnessed them working in all the locations around Luz & Portimao or wherever the multi-storey & gym were located.
I add here that Grime, for his part, never claimed his dogs gave evidence, in fact he stated the opposite and explained they couldn't be used that way & were indicators of something but that forensic evidence needed to back up just what it was they'd found. That evidence didn't happen & if Dr Mark Perlin's analyses via the data was to sort out the car & DNA into specific persons, I doubt it will further the inquiry simply because so many people had used the car or had a reason to access it, including the hire car company employees. If there was any DNA found of specific interest, unless that persons DNA is on a data base, it is going to remain a mystery unless they can, maybe by chance, find someone matching that DNA. It happened in a case recently, I recall. Forensics having advanced to such a degree that historic cases can now be solved. I hope I've explained myself well enough and apologies if I haven't
1/2.
To Anne Guedes, I have answered some of your points in the previous post (1/2). I will just add, we haven't been told that Grime or his dogs were the best on offer in UK. If we have, I would be happy to have the links to it or who actually said this other than Ken Stott narrating in the documentary about Grime & his dogs. I think that was some kind of PR exercise and not backed up by anything at all. The FOI to South Yorkshire police (which was online for many years but the time elapsed & it has now gone ) gave a run down of the dogs success rate @ 1 body found & in tandem with officer Ellis & Frankie the dog, 4 bodies in total. That is good but is hardly glowing. The dogs rate of pay was a basic amount as was the handlers, no super pay as was narrated by Stott in the documentary. If you recall he stated they were receiving more pay than the Chief Constable. Eyebrow raising stuff and untrue. 200 cases being solved, as claimed, were in fact during the training programme not on deployment. All hype but it has caused many online to believe the dogs could walk on water & the truth is they were mediocre at best. It would be interesting to know who took the payment from the PJ's Directorate for the dogs. It wasn't ACPO so was it NPIA? I assume they gave Grime the payment for his work but I don't know & I doubt anybody does.
I will never disrespect the working dogs but tools they are & it has to be assessed by humans as to whether they have hit on anything & in the case of IED dogs both in theatres of war & indeed in the airport scene or on deployment in public situations, the safety of the public ultimately rests on the alerts being assessed & either declared a danger or passed as safe to proceed. Would I get on an airplane alerted to by such a dog, the answer is YES because I trust in the human search team deciding on the safety issue. The same has to be employed with cadaver dogs & blood dogs (and Eddie was trained in both disciplines). Grime agreed as stated above & he can be heard in videos declaring this - dogs alerts are indicators on places to examine more closely & with forensic scientists giving the results. Dogs are too fickle to take at face value & thank goodness for that as ultimately every handler has a reward for his dogs & every working dog knows this & their goal is to get that reward.
I'll end by saying that if working dogs in the discipline of IED detection were believed every time, without human intervention, there'd have been many planes grounded over the years & public assemblies cancelled. As for cadaver dogs, no person has been imprisoned on their alerts alone, there has to be corroborating evidence otherwise miscarriages of justice could be commonplace.
I thought they found the guy that Jane Tanner had seen. That it was another holiday goer carrying his daughter back from the baby sitting service. Julian Totman was his name.
I will give you the points where your sequence of events could be wrong:
Maybe when Gerry left the apartment 5A to dispose of Madeleine's body and was subsequently spotted by the Smiths family, he didn't left to the west because he wanted to hide her body over there, but because he was trying to avoid been seen by the people of the ocean club, which the entrance is right around the corner and on the shortest path to the beach. So, maybe there was never a "second location", maybe he just left to the west and when he got close to the beach he took a turn to the east and made his way to the beach, walked all the way to the Rocha Negra, where he hid her body, from the very beginning.
Andy maybe it is still there, let's remember Gerry is an athletic man, both the McCans were marathon runners and Gerry a few years ago participated in one of these long distance swimming events, so physically he is very resourceful, and there are many good spots to hid a body in that rock for someone who can do a bit of climbing and more.
The second possibility is that he just got down to the street closest to the beach and went straight west, all the way, until it turns into a dirt road and there are very little or no houses with people who could spot him, and just there, he found somewhere to hid her body. I would consider the possibility he walked 25 or even 30 minutes to find a good sport, again, he was an athletic man and could easy jog this distance back in 5 to 10 minutes. And maybe again, it's still there and nobody really searched the location well enough to find her.
Of course these two hypothesis discard the hit of the dogs in the McCanns rental car. But I would argue that what the dog's hit on the car could be indicating something they that they warped Madeleine's body with that could have blood and other DNA material on it and later put on the boot of the car. Such as a blanket or a bag.
IMO there was no abduction, Madeleine died in 5A and Gerry hid her body. There was tension between the McCanns because Gerry flirted with the aerobics instructor and ignored Kate. Kate stated this herself to the PJ. She had bruises on both wrists and a cut above her eye, first noticed the day after Madeleine disappeared but possible from a few days before. Perhaps Madeleine came in between a fight or became the victim of their frustrations? I think only him and Kate know the truth, the rest of their friends twisted the facts only to spare the McCanns and to make themselves look better. However, I tend to believe Jane Tanner when she says she was in that narrow street when Gerry and Jez were talking. Everyone assumes she was walking on the pavement and therefore had to bump into them but perhaps she was walking in the middle of the street? A deserted little street in a sleepy holliday town, no cars, no kids to watch over, I would have done so, certainly after a few wines. I maybe mistaken but didn't some tourist come forward saying he was carrying his sleeping child from the crĂšche at that time? Anyway, the McCanns lie, their friends and family believe them or close their eyes to spare the twins, Portuguese and British police are fighting amongst each other and the press is only interested in selling their crapc stories. Thanks for being one of the few fighting for Madeleine Pat.
anonymous May 10th at 3.11 .. 'Sadly the McCanns didn't know that there was a message scrawled across the booking forms to say they wanted to dine there every evening so they could check the children. Kate discovered that when she and Gerry were given access to the PJ files and by that I don't mean those we have access to.'
I've read that this note isn't in the files. Has anybody seen it?
@ Anon
I'm not going to get into any form of altercation with you even though you accuse me of agitating on FB. In all honesty it's not what I thought initially. What I thought was this Anon seems to be putting up an argument that is in favour of the abduction theory and going to great lengths to discredit Pat. But that's by the bye now. Believe me or not.
I simply thank you for sharing confirmation of who you are not, and accept that you are a concerned member of the public.
As you stated you follow this on FB you will see that I've shared this with the group to dispel their suspicions.
Just to clarify, we are all concerned members of the public, like yourself, and are entitled to our own opinions. The difference being we are very open with it and are willing to put our name to it.
This is totally your prerogative and I would hope we are all after the same goal, that is to discover what has happened to this beautiful, innocent child. Whatever has been said, milled over, whatever, I for one would love to see Maddie safe and well and would publicly apologise for thinking otherwise.
Note to Pat.......still full of admiration for your work X
@Jane 4.26pm
I think what needs to be taken on board by those who research online is that there is limited access to the PJ Files, that is to say, the complete volumes are not there for us to peruse at will and make of them what we will.
So we have incomplete sets of statements which we don't know the veracity of in their entireity. I suspect the answer to your question is that we have not seen it but the McCanns were given access to the PJ Files to read through long before anybody published them online.
I doubt they have lied.
@Katie95 @5.46am
As far as I am aware there has been no removal of the Jane Tanner efit from the Find Madeleine website, so I assume they don't believe that Dr Totman was the man in question and frankly I don't think he was.
We have heard some very odd stories circulating around this case and this is one of them. Seven Years later Dr Totman is revealed as POSSIBLY being the man Jane Tanner saw but where it falls down is he was supposed to be carrying his 2 year old son back from creche. If that is the case why was he walking in an easterly direction and not westerly along the street, heading towards the apartment blocks instead of away, as Jane Tanner recalls seeing the man with a girl child, going by the pyjama bottoms. I am not disputing Dr Totman did walk his child home as quite a few would be doing, but that the sighting was not of him. I also find it questionable why he would have kept the pyjamas for 7 years and the clothes he wore, which to me didn't resemble what Jane says and neither did his hairstyle resemble what Jane remembered.
@ James @ 4.22pm
I have read your thoughts on this matter of Gerry being the man the Smith family saw but somehow think you have completely missed the responses to the Smithman query above.
Gerry was at the table at the time Kate came to the entrance and called out "Madeleine has gone". With that all of the friends left the table at around 10pm to go and help look for her and shortly after one of the waiters spoke with Diane Webster asking why she was alone and she told him the group had gone to find a missing child.
Shortly after this the same barman remembers Gerry returning to the area but frantically searching around the Tapas area and the swimming pool and he heard Kate McCann in the background calling out "Madeleine" hoping her daughter was about somewhere and would respond.
How then can you even thin Smithman was Gerry as the family saw their man at around this time and we know where Gerry was?
There is no point in making up scenarios to suit, you have to have some reasoning power and work out that Gerry could not be in 2 places at the same time.
Whoever was seen by the Smith family they could not recognise him again because they didn't see his facial features, just some of his clothing and his hair. I also seem to recall one of the Smith's (maybe Aoife) saying in her statement that the girl had long sleeves on her dark pink top and lighter bottoms. That does not sound like the pyjamas Madeleine was wearing to me.
Perhaps this was another father carrying his daughter home after an evening out or from the creche, but then why was he coming down that street if he had used the same creche? There would be no need for him to come from a northerly direction down towards the beach from the Ocean Club creche.
A mystery for certain, but I have no hesitation in believing this man was not Gerry McCann because I go with the statements not forum fantasies.
@Unknown @ 8.19am
Again you have made a statement that I find hard to believe. I apologise for that but in the years I have been following & researching this case I haven't seen anything regarding Kate being jealous of the aerobics mistress, only on forums is anything said about her. Some say Gerry was taken by her big boobs! You know the kind of silly things people come out with.
The only reference if that kind made by Kate came from Susan Healy who said her daughter wondered if she might be believed more had she had an ample bosom rather than being a skinny woman. I cannot imagine why Kate said that because to me a woman's bosom is of no consequence to her motherliness. However, I do realise when in the depths of despair such utterances are sometimes made with no logicality.
On Kate's bruising we are told by her that she had lashed out at inanimate objects out of sheer frustration. To me that is perfectly understandable and preferable to being of the nature to hit out at a person. We have often seen women in distress depicted with clenched fists hitting a wall and crying. It is a release of emotions and nothing more and nothing sinister should be inferred from that action.
Why there is a need to accuse the McCanns of hurting and then hiding their child's body, well it amazes me beyond. I have no such inclinations towards them being guilty but I do feel Madeleine was taken away that evening, just as Jane Tanner witnessed.
Somebody in that sleepy little holiday town knows the answers and how the PJ missed out interviewing some of the workforce and in depth, I still have to scratch my head about that oversight. What use was there sacking them or in the case of Mark Warner, posting them over to Greece?
Pure fantasy. You have 10,000 pages of police files and you’re still not satisfied. DNA does NOT need retesting !!! If the evidence doesn’t fit your theory then the theory is wrong !!!
@ Anonymous @ 10.55am
You state there are 10,000 pages of PJ Files we have access to but we must also consider the files are incomplete & should never have been published.
I am not sure what you are getting at by your remark about the DNA. Surely if it required re-testing then it's up to the PJ & OG to arrange for this? We don't now they haven't had it retested do we, both forces working in silence.
Britain is inclined to keep up to date with forensic testing methods so it is more than likely Dr Perlins undoubted genuine offer is no required, especially at this point in time.
It would seem to me that as the Home Office have more or less sanctioned OG to continue on for as long as it takes to solve this mystery, then there is something they know & something they will pursue & I doubt it is just for Madeleine, although she has been the catalyst.
Agree Smithman has been underplayed for years and the Tanner sighting been debunked (although dubiously) by redwood.. I have had a bit of a look at the PJfiles again and was interested in the statement of the duch owner of the villa McCann stayed after leaving the ocean club.firstly he never hired property to anyone other than friends or family ( didn't McCann live in Amsterdam for a while? Is there any connection there?).he and his gardener in their statements recorded that gardening work and new shrubs had appeared whilst McCann were staying there..just thought that was of interest
@Sumai @ 4.57
Are you suggesting the McCanns had the shrubs put into the villa garden? I really can't see that as being feasible, can you? Yes, tidying up the garden but not planting shrubs out.
He must have been asked by somebody to allow the McCanns to stay in his villa as they would not have known about it otherwise. Maybe the OC management knew he left his villa unoccupied at times and this was just one of those times?
@ Di B @ 10.45pm
I am relieved to read from you that you would very much love for Madeleine to be found safe and well and that an apology will be forwarded from yourself to the McCanns should that be the case, which I very much hope it will be.
I believe most people here are following the groups and what the members are saying. There is a huge interest in the welfare of this young lady Madeleine. If it hasn't left us by now, it never will, but it is the way we look at the case that differs.
There are those who support Goncalo Amaral's thesis in spite of being told he has been less than truthful throughout his career as a senior Portuguese police officer. A leopard rarely changes its spots they say. He wrote his thesis on the work he had undertaken up to the point he was removed in the September of 2007 and Tavares de Almeida's interim report so many cling to, is only relating who, as a group of officers, they had decided was the scapegoat and that being the parents.
I realise that, in most cases, the perpetrator/s will be connected in some way to the family but not always. So while the investigation must always look into this aspect of possibility it should not preclude or exclude the lines of enquiry looking elsewhere and this is where the PJ let Madeleine down.
A country on the trafficking route to North Africa and a child goes missing! Surely the PJ should have acted immediately and alerted the authorities in the airports and sea ports and done a better job than we witness on Netflix of stop and search? Not only was that not put into effect, when it was the officers allowed most vehicles to pass through unimpeded and some of the vehicles had blacked out windows.
Alarm bells have to be ringing for those who watched, with great interest, the Netflix docu, the lack of care provided by the PJ towards this very vulnerable child?
I would ask Di, had this been a child of yours, what your reaction would be?
Is it possible the McCanns lack of interest in the Smithman sighting could be due to the fact they always knew it was irrelevant and there was no benefit to them, unlike Tannerman? Would this affect your theory?
Anon 4:22
It seems like you are purposefully ignoring my post. The major point is NOT that Smithman couldn’t have been some guy carrying his daughter home, some guy who preferred not to come forward, but that the McCanns show so little interest in the sighting. This is abnormal for parents of a missing child. They should be all over that sighting as this might be the supposed abductor. Yet, they have very muted interest in Smithman. To me, that is very damning.
Anon @ 10:45
The point is not that Goncalo Amaral or the PJ are not perfect. They weren’t and they aren’t as is true with most police forces. The point is that there - think they are unskilled, corrupt, wrong, whatever - is that there is no evidence of an abduction and much evidence supporting the McCanns involvement. I don’t have to like or dislike anyone - and that includes the McCanns - to one up with this conclusion.
Also, there is no way Maddie was taking by any sex ring; it simply isn’t how they operate. IF there was no evidence that the McCanns were involved and IF there was evidence of someone accessing the bedroom and taking Madeleine, the it would be a child predator and Maddie would have been dead within hours.
However, the evidence does not support stranger involvement in Maddie going missing.
@ Pat Brown
I politely beg to differ in that there is no reason to believe that abduction is an impossibility or that there are many reasons pointing towards parental involvement. I have read over the case so many times and do not come to the same conclusion.
Having been bombarded with the Real Crimes podcast in which there are 2 or 3 experts giving their view, the American criminal profiling analyst in conversation with Laura Richards, who hitherto held the post of Homicide Prevention Officer at NSY, that the way in which Madeleine may have been the target, considering her age, is the way traffickers work when it is not solely for sexual exploitation. The child is a commodity and they will sell to whoever orders and for whatever purpose. There must be enough of it going on in USA for you to realise this by now?
The alternative, which you prefer to support, is that the family did something to their child without a MO. She was not a naughty or particularly troublesome child and was very outgoing and very attractive in a crowd, so would have stuck out a mile to those looking out for such a child.
Clemente's & Richards also pointed out the flaws in the way the PJ handled the case. It transpires they do not consider a missing person to be criminal until many hours or days after the alert. That to be says there was valuable time lost in the Golden Hours and Laura Richards confirmed this. The road blocks were not put in place immediately it became apparent Madeleine was not in the vicinity. There were not enough PJ or GNR sent to help in searches and the door to door enquiries were less than adequate. The statement collecting from those working in the immediate area of Block 5 were also inadequate.
It has to be said that since the Netflix documentary we are seeing a huge turn towards support for the abduction theory as things were revealed that many people, who only tend to join the worst kind of groups and become brainwashed by the speculation within those groups, did not know beforehand.
I agree there are good people in every walk of life and also evil people. Personally I don't see anything but good parents in the McCanns as they have tirelessly fought for the answers to Madeleine's whereabouts when they could so easily have let everything drift away.
Can you answer me one thing please Pat. What if the staff did take the keys to Block 5 and accessed without the need to break in?
Clemente's thinks that an abductor may have watched the comings and goings of the group of friends and the parents in particular and there are witness statements backing this up. He said there is a chance the abductor did take a risk and enter via the patio door but that he would not return the same route as he went in for fear of being caught, so that person might have left via the window having pulled the strap from the bedroom side and that it would remain at that point as is the design of the shutter to do that. Maybe enough room for the abductor to hand a child over to someone waiting outside. Tannerman? It is possible, however, I sense the keys were used and a fast and easy abduction took place. What evidence would be left then?
@ Pat Brown
Another thing crossed my mind and with respect I say this. If you, as a criminal profiler, don't look at this case from all the angles including even the rarest possibility, then you do Madeleine a disservice and an injustice. We know that the region she was taken from is very close in proximity to the gateway into Africa as well as Europe, and we also know trafficking is extremely abundant now from the local traffickers here in UK taking vulnerable adults as slave labour, and there are many cases of this on record, to the wider issue of traffickers worldwide.
@Anon
Firstly I reiterate my previous comment and would dearly love that Maddie been found alive and well. I also agree that the interest in her welfare won't go away until there's a conclusion.
There are experts on this case and there's a massive public interest which naturally is not necessarily equipped with every bit of information, neither should it be if it would put the investigation in jeopardy. The main issue I understand is that the only line of enquiry is abduction and general feeling by now and 20 million pounds later is it's time to close it.
NB......not what I'm suggesting, just general feeling.
You seem in rather more of a privileged position with your information whilst the majority of the public have only media, so called armchair detectives, conspiracy theories etc and limited statements. It's little wonder as to why there's so much speculation. As I state, you seem to have more to go on/argue.
I do however admire experts in their field who have followed and continue to follow this. It's pretty obvious that this will not go away until there are are answers and those responsible are uncovered.
Regarding the handling of the case in those crucial hours I think it's fair to assume that for whatever reason they didn't believe it was an abduction so did not consider it necessary to take the appropriate action. My opinion only, I wasn't there.
Despite many discussions, professional opinions and statements it seems there is no evidence of abduction. There is evidence of other possibilities which are totally dispelled by the parents. The public cannot be blamed in questioning this and is why it will continue to be a topic.
In answer to the million dollar question that you present to me......had this been a child of mine what my reaction would be is quite simple........I don't know. If I am basing it on the circumstances that Kate and Gerry were in the night of the 3rd the answer is simple.......I'm a mother of two children aged 43yrs and 34yrs and grandmother of 3. I have never and would never leave them alone in the first instance therefore I can't put myself there. Neither can I concoct how I'd behave if hypothetically I had. Until faced with it I don't believe anyone could answer this
I suspect the reason for you asking is to ascertain my opinion on Kate and Gerry's right or wrong reaction.......if so then I have no problem stating that for parents who have had their child removed from their family under whatever circumstances they didn't and still haven't shown an expected reaction.
May I pose the same question to you Anon ?
Hi Pat! I feel strongly that Gerry could have been the man the Smith family saw that night, however I keep wondering if indeed the statements are true that witnesses place him at the Tapas restaurant at that same moment, how do you see that? What evidence do we have apart from the sighting that it was Gerry? Have you been able to deduce from all your research on this case that it could have been Gerry simply because you believe those witness statements not to be true? Or do you feel that no one actually confirmed with certainty that he was there?
Anon 6:01
I wil repeat again what I have said before. A case does not waste time with every possibility in the universe. One bases an investigation on facts and evidence. There is zero evidence of abduction and much evidence for death in the apartment of the child and a coverup. Secondly, IF Maddie were kidnapped, it would be by a local child sex predator, NOT a sex ring because that is not the way they operate and Maddie would NOT have been a target of such a ring.
Please do not continue with comments on sex rings and such. You are entitled to your opinion, but as I profiler, I have to disagree strongly that without an evidence linking Maddie to a sex ring, it is a waste of manpower and resources to focus on it.
Anon 4:55,
I question the witness accounts.
But, aside from that, IF Gerry were so firmly alibied in the Tapas Restaurant, why are they so desperate to have Tannerman be the kidnapper and Gerry on the road at the time Tanner claims to have seen them both? IF Gerry were so firmly alibied in the Tapas Restaurant, why do the McCanns not shout to the hills about Smithman possibly being the kidnapper, even likely being the kidnapper, and, wow, even better, a good enough description to say he looks a good bit like Gerry, so look for someone like that? After all, if it CAN’T be Gerry, why do you care if the kidnapper is his doppleganger?
The question is whether certain posters seek a confirmation of their beliefs or facts. About the TP kids being alone at night, there is no note in the PJFiles. No information at all. About the MCs having access to files that the public has no access to, the answer is no and Kate MC herself complained about this.
About the MCs not being suspects for the PJ, it's true, but it just means that they're not scrutinized at the moment. I don't think they'll ever be, by the PJ that is.
About the nannies sent to Greece, obviously the reason was to protect them from harrassing media.
About GMC being at the Tapas table when the alarm was launched, he very likely was there as well as MMC was still in 5A.. The alarm's time was before 10pm, not after.
Before imagining that MMC was "very attractive in a crowd", read BOD who wasn't able to say whether MMC was or was not in a little group on a tennis court : all blond, all pink, all pretty.
About the "experts", they're excellent in criticizing what they actually don't know. Clemente has a problem with the functionning of the rolling shutter, he ignores that the GNR is currently equipped to lead criminal investigations, while Laura Richards insists that MCs against GA (by the way the 5 MCs against GA et al) was a libel lawsuit, it was only a lawsuit to get compensation for damages (as the crime is yet undetermined), etc.
As PB says, if Smithman couldn't possibly be GMC, why neglecting him totally for years ?
Evening Pat ...
I picked your name up from the Mark S podcasts and have been following your work since then.
I have been fascinated with this whole case from the very start, my wife, her family and I with our 2 small children (my daughter was 3 and my son 1 at the time) ironically stayed at Clement Freuds Villa about 2/3 months before poor Maddie’s disappearance. We knew and it was very publicly known that crime and burglary was really high in the area so we pulled a mattress for my daughter to sleep on in our room with the travel cot so we were all together ... Leaving our children alone at similar ages to the Mcanns would have been the last thing we would have ever done at home or abroad in an unknown area.
At the time I was running 7/10 miles a day and got to know the area fairly well, as you state it’s vast and the cliff drops are huge and dangerous, when you’ve been there it’s easy to understand that if you needed to hide something or someone it would be nigh on impossible to ever locate.
It’s a simple fact for me ... when your on holiday as a family even in a group your away as a family, you go out with your children or you stay home with your children, I could not imagine the guilt of leaving them (regardless of the eating in your back garden rubbish they like to spout) alone for a whole multitude of reasons!
I have a couple of questions that I would like hear your expert opinion on please?
1. why do you think the British government and Police have been so supportive of a group of family’s that they would normally look to prosecute in the UK for neglect?
2. do you think that the truth of this case will ever come to light or just remain an unsolved mystery?
Thank you for time and please keep up the good work.
Best Regards
Mark
Mark, I don’t know if I can answer your questions. Simply, I do not know. What I can tell you is that I have worked other cases - some with the police where I have access to all the files - and I have seen cases mismanaged and closed erroneously and the public is none the wiser.. Even when I present evidence publically to prove that a case has been wrongly closed, rarely does the media care unless it is a case of racial discrimination. It is frustrating that the truth is of little concern, but, in fact, neither the public or the media is particularly concerned that the truth is unearthed. Mostly, a good ending is preferred, whether it be correct or not. It is sad and frustrating because our own personal wishes for a case outcome should not matter. When we lose sight of the need for the truth to be the most important issue, we lose, period.
Well...Jimmy Savile was a hero and idol in Britain too...until the sad truth about him came out. I'm afraid it is the same in this case. I completely agree with your version of events as evidence doesn't support anything else. And as those two "clever" parents say just ask the dogs or find the body cos she was dead from day one if not earlier whether it was accident or less likely arranged kidnapping. Personally I would check the places that some people suggest she might be burried and if nothing found would leave this case till the time when some builders or treasure hunters accidentally find the remains of that poor girl. Cos it seems nobody wants to press the McCann's against the wall...for some reason and perhaps the same that kept everyone away from sir Jimmy Savile. I mean people tend to believe that someone saying something bad about a so called "Saint" person lies or is paranoid rather than believe the truth even though the truth is sometimes sour and difficult to digest. Regards
Have you given up Pat?
I saw you had been tweeting about your success with IPSO and the Sun.
Nobody ever really takes this kind of newspaper seriously anyway so don't worry about it.
Hello Pat,
The Monto do Jose Mestre area is as you said a possible hiding spot. Gerry was a golfer but he didn’t play golf. He was once with friends in the Algarve to play golf before 2007. In March 2007 his golfclub plus his golfbal were stolen in Rothley.
The San Antonia golfcourse is also a perfect spot to bury their firstborn daughter. It is close to the Monto.
Maybe he played there in the week he was in Portugal before 2007. maybe he knew someone who lived there or had a summerresidence.
On 7 May 2007 Matthew Oldfield’s mobile made at 12.04 contact with the pole in Budens and a few minutes later in Luz. The PJ discovered late4 that Matthew Oldfield must have access to a motor vehicle. The same day the mobile from Russell O’Brien made contact with a pole in the parish of Aljezur at around 14.06. So two hours later. Maybe both Tapas members were in a car, because at 14.26 in the afternoon the signal was caught by a pole Luz 3.
He also had access to a car, probably the same car. So the area close to Budens could be the burial spot. Probably the second one.
Later, when the Renault Scenic was hired by the McCanns has been used to move the body to a definite burial spot. That could be the golfcourse, in the water spots, in a bunker or along a border/of the green. Those places stay for many years the same.
Here is also the golfcourse near Lagos. If he played golf at the course near that city in the direction of Huelva in Spain, he also could have visited a friend who has a holidayresidence there.
I also thought of a Dutch connection.
My scenario is based on Three’s a Crowd. Madeleine was a millstone around Kate’s neck from her birth.
18 hours walking around in one day during six months because Madeleine had a colic is a lie.
The hay fever medicine Gerry used could be caused her death. Heartfailure caused by Terfenadine.
Her photo with the red trouser with the holes show she was fallen a=lot of times.
In her first year she also could got a Baby Shaken Syndrom. Kate must have been gone crazy at the time,
For me her death was diliberatly. Two couples, her parents and the twins and their first born IVF child was one too many. Madeleine became three’s a Crowd. Unwanted. That’s why the couple didn’t call the emergency phone. They were Fromm the beginning their doctors. No medical file and no respons to the PJ when they asked for her medical record.
It wasn’t Kate who was infertile. it was Gerry, a doctor, a cardiologist who couldn’t save her after something happened when they were in the Tapas restaurant. Probably already on Sunday April 29 2007.
I think that Madeleine was in coma for some day before she died. But as you wrote she is still missing. Abduction is total crap. Neclect and leaving her child alone, knowing her medical file, became a horror show.
The couple and their lawyers never made a lawsuit to HORAS 24 about the spermdonor and the paternity issue of Gerry McCann.
That is interesting. For me he wasn’t Madeleine’s biological daddy. After lifting their arguido status the lawyers wanted to sue the news paper. They didn’t. Find the spermdonor. Gerry didn’t took a paternity test, so he can’t prove Madeleine is his daughter.
He has misleading everybody by doing everything to create a inconclusive DNA profile of Madeleine.
The pillow from their Rothley residence is a mix from Kate and the twins. A present for the PJ.
I do hope the PJ will start a search in the area. Operation Grange is dying. Brexit is an excellent event. The PJ must reopen this Investigation. This is still a simple case. The parents created a “no body no case”
Bring them to justice.
Hello Pat,
My view to the Smithman sighting is that it was Russell O’Brien with Eve or Ella carrying. When JaneTanner saw the man carrying a child, her partner was in their apartment because Eve was ill and vomiting. At the time the so called abduction scenario wasn’t activated.. That started after Kate, who was present when something happened to Madeleine. ( not at Thursday 3 May), at Around 10pm that evening.
Russell was the one who played the role of the abductor. When he returned after he was seen by the witnesses walking in the direction of the beach and the westside of Praia da Luz, he was told bij Jane that she saw a man carrying a child. Then they used her sighting to focus on this man as being the abductor.
I never read about this possibility. I agree with your view about ignoring the sighting of the Smithman by the parents. They tried to avoid a complication of two abductors. They succeeded in the end. The MET found the man who was seen by Jane Tanner.
Russell got away with it. He was seen by the witnesses. That was enough to concentrate on an abductor til today.
Russell is the achillesheel in this case. He was also involved, together with Matthew Oldfield, in concealing the body.They moved her body several times. Madeleine didn’t die that same day. On 7 May 2007 these two doctors had access to a motor vehicle. Their mobile phone signal were in Budens and the parish of Aljezur.
I agree with you that the area where they hide the body is north of Budens. A remote area at the time.
I believe what Ms. Pat is saying.
I remember reading about a dog, blood in car and church. I don't follow it much but it is a cover up. Non of them would want to go to jail and let go of their rich lifestyles.
They have a friend or a priest friend, have the police / crime investigators inspected the churchyard. Bring in the best crime scene investigators/forensics and a profiler to read the McCanns.
The McCanns, the mother's sedating lead to the child's death and their friends don't want to go to jail so they had to cover each other's tracks. Someone helped them bury the body or cremated. It has been removed from the apartment. They used the dog to cover the scent. Have both of them and all their friends go to a lie detector.
Gather all of them in one room and ask them questions, you will see one will give in because of guilt. One will make eye contact, one will choke and will prefer to be quiet. You will find out the truth by gathering all of them in one room. Talking to them individually, they have prepared a good alibi.
A simple question....is Madeleine dead? Yes or No. Have them all one by one do a lie detector.
Have the priest do a lie detector. He will never lie or he will go to jail, satan's jail.
Search the Church, they have cctv.
Post a Comment