Saturday, October 25, 2014

Let's Talk about Curtains

Anyone who works in a lab that tests hotel bedspreads from a crime scene can tell you that they may find dozens and dozens of DNA samples on just one item, perhaps even semen from more than two dozen men. Why is this? Because hotels don't wash bedspreads very often.

Now, let's talk about curtains. How often do you think curtains in rental flats are washed? Yeah, about as often as those hotel bedspreads; actually, probably far less often because curtains are not usually a place where spilled drinks and food, vomit, pee, or semen tend to land. Unless those curtains get really disgusting (full of cigarette smoke, for example), they probably hang around without getting a wash for quite a long while.

And while they are hanging around, they are touched quite, close, open, close, open, close. So, if you want to find a location in a rental unit that might still have a lot of DNA from a number of people, you just might choose the curtains.

After, you test them, you would then have to run down everyone who ever stayed in the unit (and their friends who visited) and all the employees who might have entered the room in order to exclude anyone who have had reason to be there. You could then try to match the DNA to known criminals if you have their DNA or their DNA is in a data bank.

Of course, in the end, if you still have some DNA that can't be matched to anyone, you can always suspect that mysterious DNA be the calling card of some unknown person who committed some terrible crime that happened in that location.

Just saying.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown


Anonymous said...

.... but the whoosh factor destroyed all evidence .....

Johanna said...

Anybody actually READING the files would notice that the bedroom curtains were never taken and can therefore not be examined again under the SY review. What was taken were the curtains in the living room behind the sofa, with a little part of the net curtains retained and tested (without results) in Portugal.

TM with the Mirror as their current mouthpiece have to spin this as being the bedroom curtains. The bedroom is safe, no dog alerts. The living room is dangerous and might get people digging further into the files to detect material having been returned to Portugal that is even more dangerous because it is from the hired car...

Objectivity is what will solve the case, not pre-set conclusions without the basis of proper research.

guerra said...

"Objectivity is what will solve the case, not pre-set conclusions without the basis of proper research."

You should be telling that to Scotland Yard, Johanna.

You're quite right Pat. I never realized it but it's true. Any curtain regardless of its location in a hotel apartment is highly likely to yield the DNA of many individuals. Invariably people are going to open and close curtains especially in a foreign country in an apartment where they have never been. And of course curtains are rarely washed, and hotels are without question high traffic areas.

Anonymous said...

@ There is no updates in the mccann files, and pat has raised some very good valid observasions that are very hard to dismiss, or leave out in any examination, or research into dna evidence, spot on the ball with this pat.

Anonymous said...

Clutching at (more) straws!

The obvious - as stated by Pat above - seems to have been missed by SY. Any 'new' dna technique used is only of use if dna from an alleged abductor is already held or available.

I wonder how many more years and how much more money is going to be spent on this ONE child.

Anonymous said...

Ah ah! The bedroom curtains are the most convenient ones, of course! The ones I remember the McCanns said were never open as well as the shuttter:

"She also stated that the windows were closed, the shutters were down and the curtains were always drawn in the children's bedroom throughout their stay in Portugal."

The same window that ONLY had one set of fingerprints, Kate's, on a closing motion position:

"I went to the window and opened the curtains to see if she had climbed out but there was no sign of her.
"I don't know if I closed the window at that moment."

Can anyone believe that they NEVER opened the curtains or shutters during the WHOLE holiday? Waking up the kids, getting them dressed, etc., always in the dark or with the lights on, with all the plenty of natural sunlight outside?!

Johanna said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Pat Brown said...

The previous comment has been removed for being rude to other people posting. In response, just because comments are being made on the subject posted does not mean everyone is ignorant of media spin. The post was just a mockery of any analysis of curtain testing; in fact, I, myself have never referenced any particular case.

Johanna said...

Yes but mainly because you are not commenting on the CASE anymore because you are so certain how it is going to pann out. :)

Anonymous said...

Johanna, we know how it will pan out. Pat no longer comments on the case but this article although it involves the Mccanns, it can be applied to any case. DNA from hotel room curtains is hardly going to catch the "kidnapper" or any kidnapper in future is it?

Anonymous said...

Correction: I didn't mean the article involves the mccanns, I meant the DNA testing method involves them.

Anonymous said...

It's likely just defensive PR after the same paper reported Op Grange costs will likely exceed £10m.

They want to be seen doing something.

Anonymous said...

Yep, mystery DNA (like the partial prints on the shutters that obviously cannot be Kate's) that will be used to tentatively link to a mystery somebody in a pathetic attempt to try and demonstrate that Scotland Yard solved it. The fact that they've got this far with such ridiculous 'evidence' I think proves the writing is on the wall. It remains to be seen whether the general public will let it lie though.

trustmeigetit said...

Just a few Mccann headlines in October. Pretty funny how random they are and how there is really not ever any real follow up. Just like they are planting storys to the media to confuse people.

TODAY - Madeleine McCann: 100 strands of untested human hair provide new hope in DNA hunt

10-28-14 Maddie McCann suspect stole passport and faked Navy career

10-27-14 - Maddie breakthrough: Curtains may hold DNA clue in hunt for Madeleine McCann

10-16-14 Madeleine McCann News: 'Stranger' DNA From Holiday Apartment Could Be Re-Tested

10-3-2014 - Has Madeleine McCann finally been found in Spain? Police investigate new sighting

10-1-2014 EXCLUSIVE: Ex-soldier claims he saw Madeleine McCann by a Nerja swimming pool

trustmeigetit said...

Pat, have you talked about the Isabel Celis case? Was just wondering your thoughts on that.

Anonymous said...

@ I would think they would have to drag up these stories, because at the height of the reward that was put up previously, that came under question of so many sightings comming out of the wood work, and the eventual mystery where that reward vannished, like our concerns for a vannishing child?
It does not encourage honest people that are not interested in a reward?
The tabloids are desperate for a scoop, and this feeds false hope, that has seen hinderence take priority, at a damaging cost to find real evidence?
Its certainly odd the reward has dropped, if they beleive that madeleine is still alive?

Anonymous said...

@ Any story via the press has to be regarded with a pinch of salt, since the mccanns sue them, in effect this dosent help their campaign via the press since information is brought by spin and unreliable means, paying people for any story that wasnt brought to the police attention, scuppering any facts to damage a real investigation in their bihest views, and have not been accountable for any inconsistent reporting in any gaps in this case?
It becomes self evident money has changed nothing about the facts?
Where was the mccanns expert on abduction from the very start, to give this fund any credability?
Where is their profiler they never hired?
Various weakness in this theory does not validate any law suit at civil level, and amaral can argue they do not have any expert in abduction to reinforce any litigation in the past after amaral made his thesis?
The only smears came from the press, and political spin, not from a expert that has knowledge to confirm a abduction, ransom ect.
Otherwise we are left with no proof of life, and any real expert would have questioned the parents why no evidence exists to give that any credence, in review of amarals thesis.
Just saying.

Anonymous said...

@ The weakness in any sighting, there is no voice captured recordings, to confirm that child is madeleine, and voice recoginition is important to any credible sighting, since the witness is unable to give this evidence in any video, its unlikely it can be taken seriously it is madeleine, its critical to have such evidence where the mccanns have videos to compare this childs voice?
They need to point this out in their campaign, sadly missed by their team?

Anonymous said...

@ Her hair coloration might of changed, been dyed, she might also be wearing glasses, so the photo fit the mccanns use of her ageing isnt going to help if there is a realistic chance of finding her famously walking around looking like that image, being plasterd on posters?
It seems they never learnt anything about their first posters, that endangerd this child being killed under any abduction theory?
Its no real supprise this child as been put at risk too many times of never being found by idiot parents, who hold no value to madeleines life?
If she is found alive, what makes the mccanns think she will ever trust them after leaving her alone to be abducted?

Anonymous said...

This is a farce in all senses. The ONLY apparent 'evidence' that "might" help "solve" this case is on curtains - not from the bedroom but the living room.... and from 100 hair strands that have not been able to identify any known perpetrator and the alleged abductor left no other sign of themselves in that apartment? The child is gone and spending more and more British taxpayers money on looking for one child is beyond belief.
If the McCanns feel so strongly that she is still out there waiting to be found they should employ bona fide investigators who have had success in finding missing children. Goodness only knows they have had more than enough pumped into their Find Madeleine Fund to pay for this - and I was under the impression that the fund was intended to fund the search for their child.
Enough is enough and there must be thousands of children who could do with the help of Scotland Yard!

SergeantDoodles said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MRSFeeX said...

I do have a cat, and the hair from my cat are also in my car.
My cat never took a ride in my car.
Do dna like hair can travel.
However..Blood, sperm or fingerprints are not 'travelling' like hair does.
It is amazing how the UK only make a big issue when something happens to their citizens abroad.
It seems like they 'dont come forward, or care' to speak when big issues are on their soil.
Saville, Rotherham..(or Peter Conelli, Daniel Pelka they died.) Fred and Rose West (CM repporting) Harold Shipman.
It can go on for a long time before someone dare to speak.
I also dont like the way the media is working.
If you read the Uk papers you think all the parents are neglecting or abusing their children.
The greatest horror are live from the UK.
I read at least 3 children in the UK dies every month by the hands of their parents.
Only 10% of those is known by socail service.

This is a reporting missing girl case.
NO HARM PROVEN like Gerry said.
So no crime then?
Or a crime unproven?
The Uk should take care of the children in need in the UK.
Instead chasing ghost.
It is a disgrace..indeed.

MRSFeeX said...

Wanted or unwanted children.
To have children, it makes the difference,
The Mcann did sport,work,study,on high level, had many friends,go to church, had also a very close familysupport.
How did they manage then before?
They did.
Even afterwards they remain stronger to keep it working.
I cant imagine how they do it.
Do they have time or the need to sleep, anyway?

Anonymous said...

If the police were looking for the DNA of an abductor they would test the bedroom curtains and not the lounge curtains. Why would an abductor have opened the lounge curtains? That wouldn't be likely at all. So, if they are testing the lounge curtains then they must be looking for evidence of something else.

Anonymous said...

and now there is a report of a letter from a year after Madeleine disappeared that allegedly said Madeleine's body was dumped in a reservoir.
There were divers at a March of 2008 - they found a bag of bones, tape and a sock none of which was found to be significant.

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childrens curtains

Katie said...

In my opinion I believe people have one main problem when considering the McCann parents guilt. That is when we look back and remember the enormous and instantaneous scrutiny that was thrust upon them and the small Portuguese town. I do not believe they are guilty of murder but if coverup. Many people who I have spoken with and presented evidence to such as the cadaver dogs findings always say to me but how could they move the body with the media watching and in a car hired days after the abduction. I have my own theory I believe the body was never in a car the scrutiny was too intense too soon. I believe madeleine awoke like she did on a previous night and although she didn't cry this time for mum and dad to come I believe she did wander from her bedroom looking for them and in

Katie said...

doing so she looked out of the window for them and fell and hit her head and died leaving her blood DNA evidence on the windowsill and behind the sofa on the tiled floor. I believe her body was discovered by the parent/s and they realised the scale of their neglect and indeed how that would impact their other children who would almost certainly be taken from them by child services. This accident wound impact their whole life as they knew it. Their careers as community GPs figureheads in their town. Model middle class citizens.

Katie said...

I believe it was her father that was seen carrying a child near the apartment. I believe the child was not buried on wasteland but her body put in the sea. I believe this was the action if her guilt ridden and grieving father who wanted to protect his other children and indeed his reputation. I believe a shoddy abduction scene was setup and blood evidence cleaned from everything but madeleines toy cuddle cat which is which was stored both in the boot of the car days later and in the interior door panel and carried both blood and the scent of dead body. I believe the parents are too caught up in their own lies to admit their responsibility I believe they loved their daughter but were negligent and still defiant in their admission of blatant neglect.
Sorry for multiple posts and any grammatical errors comment box in my phone playing up just needed to get my thoughts out somewhere and your blog seemed the best place Pat

Dominique Ernotte said...

I share mist of your thoughts on this. But then when did Kate decide to wash the cuddle cat?

Dominique Ernotte said...

I say spot on! Key They realized the extent of their neglect and their lives would be ruined. Madeleine dead anyway.